Yours faithfully vs. Yours sincerely

Question

Hi everybody!Somebody told me the other day that "Yours sincerely," should only be used in letters to a person whom you address with his or her name (e.g. "Dear Mr Bateman,") whereas "Yours faithfully," should be used when you don't know the addressee's name and start your letter along with something in the way of "Dear Sir,", "Dear Madam," or "Dear Madams and Sirs,".As a non-native speaker of English I had never heard of that rule. Can you confirm it?And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter?Thanks for your help!Pete

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hi everybody! Somebody told me the other day that "Yours sincerely," should only be used in letters to a person ... Madams and Sirs,". As a non-native speaker of English I had never heard of that rule. Can you confirm it?[/nq]
Yes - that's what I've always understood, and written (as an English, native-English speaker).
[nq:1]And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter?[/nq]
"Yours sincerely" and "Yours faithfully" are the only formal endings I ever use.
[nq:1]Thanks for your help! Pete[/nq]
Steve Howarth

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hi everybody! Somebody told me the other day that "Yours sincerely," should only beused in letters to a person whom ... it? And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter? Thanks for your help! Pete[/nq]
There is no rule, you may use whatever you want. The only language rules are those of syntax and grammar.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter?[/nq]
See business style books of the 1950s with
specimen letters, some of which end:
I have the honour to be,
Sir,
your humble servant . . .
which may be one reason business style
books were generally abandoned in the 1980s.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

Agreed generally as regards British English, though "Yours truly" is possible for a letter starting "Dear Mr X": it's more formal than "Yours sincerely".
"Dear Madams and Sirs" is plain wrong. The convention is to use "Dear Sirs". One way round the problem is to write "Dear Members" etc or to address your letter to "The Chair(man)" or "The Secretary" or whatever.You then need to check, perhaps by telephone, the name and *** of that individual and the appropriate manner of address. Any letter addressed to "Dear Sir or Madam" goes immediately, unread, into my wastepaper basket: I believe that a letter sent to me should be addressed to me individually. Advertisements should not be in letter format.
Alan Jones

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter?[/nq]
[nq:1]See business style books of the 1950s with specimen letters, some of which end: I have the honour to be, Sir, your humble servant . . . which may be one reason business style books were generally abandoned in the 1980s.[/nq]
Indeed.
I have a letter here, received in the last year, the text of which (details elided) is:
[nq:1]Dear Sir, We beg to inform you that your esteemed order for ... is now ready, and await the favour of a call at your earliest convenience. We are, Dear Sir Your obedient servants, ...[/nq]
There are as many ways to write as letter as to skin a cat.

Cheers,
Daniel.

Usenet · Answer

Business etiquette is another area with pondian differences. An American business letter's complimentary close is most often "Sincerely." Now, I have been told that the rest of the world distrusts that word, and that letters sent to businesses in other countries should use "Cordially." But that's been argued about too.

Cece

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Business etiquette is another area with pondian differences. An American business letter's complimentary close is most often "Sincerely." Now, I ... word, and that letters sent to businesses in other countries should use "Cordially." But that's been argued about too. Cece[/nq]
The only time people mean is when they get to use words like "!" or "Crazy ***!", courtesy is faking it.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The only time people mean is when they get to use words like "!" or "Crazy ***!", courtesy is faking it.[/nq]
Could we aim for some literacy here? "People only mean what they write when they use invectives..." Which isn't quite the case. Formality, orally or in written form, has a strategic aim.
Joanne

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Mr[/nq]
The last looks odd to me. In formal situations the plural of madam is "mesdames".
[nq:2]Yes - that's what I've always understood, and written (as an English, native-English speaker).[/nq]
Yes, it's correct.
[nq:2]"Yours sincerely" and "Yours faithfully" are the only formal endings I ever use.[/nq]
[nq:1]Agreed generally as regards British English, though "Yours truly" is possible for a letter starting "Dear Mr X": it's more formal than "Yours sincerely".[/nq]
MS Word keeps wanting me to end formal letters "Yours truly" but I just assumed it must be some American convention. In the UK, the two possibilities are as stated in the OP. The rather flowery "Yours truly" is reserved for informal letters, like "Yours aye" and many others.
[nq:1]"Dear Madams and Sirs" is plain wrong. The convention is to use "DearSirs".[/nq]
I prefer plain "Sirs".
[nq:1]One way round the problem is to write "Dear Members" etc or to addressyour letter to "The Chair(man)" or "The ... basket: I believe that aletter sent to me should be addressed to me individually. Advertisements shouldnot be in letter format.[/nq]
Although I agree that I prefer to receive letters that open "Dear Mr (& Mrs) Bailey"**, it's perfectly normal and polite for members of the public to open letters with "Dear sir or madam" when writing to companies and other organisations.
**It is non-standard to use an initial, i.e. "Dear Mr A Bailey" or "Dear A Bailey". I assume that letters that open in this way are either written by machines or by foreigners.
Adrian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]And by the way: Are there other formal (!) ways to end a letter?[/nq]
Conventions about salutations and complimentary closes in letters are subject to changes in style as time goes by and also to lack of universal agreement on the various conventions in use. Because of this, you should generally rely on modern style manuals produced by the foreign office of the country where the addressee lives to determine what generally accepted forms are currently in use there. If you can't get the foreign office's guidance on that, various style manuals produced by other departments of government may be on-line. See, for instance,
http://www.usgs.gov/usgs-manual/handbook/hb/431-2-h/chap4.html for reasonably well accepted conventions in the US.Be aware that you can find all sorts of guidance in commercially produced correspondence formularies or other books, and these may include archaic uses which are included to make the book seem very detailed and better than a rival correspondence formulary. Older formularies also tend to have more detailed guidance than is used today. Using either of these sources can cause trouble if you use an archaic form without knowing what rules or implications attended that particular form, while the party addressed either does know these or discovers them by research.

For instance, it is no longer in fashion to require certain correspondence of the most formal variety, if politely written, to open with "My Dear Sir:" and end with "Very Truly Yours". In fact, modernly only the first word of any complimentary close is capitalized, and the salutation form "My Dear " is not found in contemporary formularies that I've seen except for when writing to a British Duke. If you tried to use this matched salutation and complimentary close today in any situation but those that the archaic convention designated as occassions where this form was polite, the party addressed might realize that the letter may well have had the salutation "Dear person I am forced to write to:" and the complimentary close "Hoping I never hear from you again, I remain,".

What is a polite form when called for is usually insulting in an occassion not calling for it if the form is a very formal and stiff one, as an undue and excessive level of formality expresses hostility, at least in US usage.Archaic forms or uses often persist in legal correspondence, and a complimentary close popular with some U.S. lawyers is "Very Truly Yours," or "Very truly yours,". It is never used with a salutation "My Dear ", though, and so it is sort of a partial remnant of an old form retained by many lawyers, who often retain usages that were abandoned by society decades or centuries ago. I once encountered a deviant use of this convention which I thought captured the essence of the "My Dear Sir:/Very Truly Yours" form in spirit while violating it in fact.

It started out "My Dear Sir:" and closed "Conduct Yourself Accordingly,". True, threats ought always be expressed in the accepted formality to have every measure of apparent legitimacy to them, but it is enjoyable to encounter a creative expression of a threat by a daring alteration of proper form. Pity the creativity was wasted as the matter corresponded on was small beer.

Yours faithfully vs. Yours sincerely

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