You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

Question

You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.What is the time frame of this sentence?Thank youPBF

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,
You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

What is the time frame of this sentence?

You're presupposing Now, eg Sunday 11:20 EDT where I live.

that he'll have told her You're thinking of a point in the future, eg next Tuesday at 9am. You're presupposing now that he will tell her sometime between now and Tuesday 9am.

- but he may not have. But he may not do that during the period between now and Tuesday 9am.

In summary, the speaker is thinking about what is happening now and what the situation wlill be next Tuesday at 9am.

Best wishes, Clive

BarbaraPA · Answer

It sure looks mixed to me.
You're presupposing that he WILL HAVE TOLD her [when some future times comes to pass, he would have told her already] but he may not [do so before that time].
You're presupposing that he TOLD her [already], but he may not have [yet done so].

CalifJim · Answer

PeaceblinkfriendYou're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

What is the time frame of this sentence?

The only way I am able to disambiguate this mix of tenses is to say that the 'will of probability' (in he'll) is being used.
You're presupposing (now) that he will have told her (that he has probably already told her) - but he may not have (but it is possible that he has not (told her)).
I don't see may not have as referring to anything in the future. I see it as a present possibility concerning a (potentially) past event.
You can take a future interpretation all the way to the final clause, but then you get snagged on the may not have.
CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

- but he may not have. But he may not do that during the period between now and Tuesday 9am.

As I said above, I take the speaker to mean that the person in question 'may not have (done this by next Tuesday at 9am)'.

I don't find it uncommon to hear people speaking in such a way of the type of scenario I have described. You have to try to get inside someone's mind when they speak in this way, and sometimes you get the right and sometimes the wrong meaning. However, remember that in many cases, the context will make the meaning easy to find and to follow.

The danger on a grammar forum like this is that learners may get the idea that native speakers think very carefully when they speak, and always worry about choosing the correct tenses, modals, etc. And that we spend a lot of time trying to avoid possibilities of ambiguities. We don't.

We know that the listener will often say something that confirms he has understood, or simply say 'Huh?' and ask for clarification if needed.

Best wishes, Clive

CalifJim · Answer

Clive'may not have (done this by next Tuesday at 9am)'.

Hmmm. OK. That wasn't my first take on the sentence, but I get what you're saying now.

CJ

You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

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