Would have V3

Question

Hello. I know in what cases "would have V3" is used in "if clauses but I am confused about something. Can we use "would have v3" for the situation related to the future? For example, please think that I won't go to my friend's party and so I won't see my friends or I won't have seen them, so, instead of saying "if I went to the party, I would see them", can I say "if I went to the party, I would have seen them" in the meaning that I won't go to the party and I won't have seen them? Thank you.

Fivejedjon · Accepted Answer

Anonymouscan I say "if I went to the party, I would have seen them" in the meaning that I won't go to the party and I won't have seen them?

No.

It's just about possible to say "If I had gone to the party tomorrow, I would have seen them". Here the person uttering these words has in mind something like "If I had decided to go ...".

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, I understand. Here, may I ask something about "would/should+V1" and "would/should+have+v3"? For example, please just think that I am not invited to my friend's party but I have gone to the party and I am at the party now, so, when my friend see me at his party, does he say to me "you wouldn't/shouldn't be here" or "you wouldn't/shouldn't have been here" because I am still at the party, I think "you wouldn't/shouldn't be here"  is appropriate because I am still at the party, is that right? Also, can he say to me "you wouldn't/shouldn't have come here" while I am still at the party, I think yes but I am not sure, and I think this same sentence can be said the days after the party finished, is that right as well? Thank you.

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymousso, when my friend see me at his party, does he say to me "you wouldn't/shouldn't be here" or "you wouldn't/shouldn't have been here"

He says You shouldn't be here, but not You wouldn't be here or any of the others you suggested.

Anonymouscan he say to me "you wouldn't/shouldn't have come here" while I am still at the party

He can say You shouldn't have come here, but not You wouldn't have come here.

AnonymousI think this same sentence can be said the days after the party finished, is that right as well?

Yes, if you are at the place where the party was held. Otherwise, "come here" is changed to "gone there".

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

I understand. Thanks a lot.

Anonymous · Answer

Hello again. I would like to ask something. Please consider that it is not surprising that I have come to the party, that is, despite I am not invited, my friend knew that I would come to the party because I am known as a party-man, so, if my friend wants to express that he knew I would come to his party, does he say "you would come" or "you would have come" to me while I am still in the party? And, days after the party,  if he wants to express again that he knew I would come to his party, I think he says "you would have come to the party" to me, is that right? Thank you.

Fivejedjon · Answer

He cannot say "You would come", but he can say "I knew you would come". He can say this at the party or some time later. He cannot say "(I knew) you would have come".

Anonymous · Answer

For example, in discussion about an idea with your friend, your friend says something which he or she is expected to say, you say "you would say this, you always support this idea" meaning that it is known for him or her to say this. So, if we turn to the part example, I have just thought that, maybe, it can be said "you would come" while I am at the party and "you would have come" after the party, meaning that I am/was expected to come to the party. When you think about again, can "you would come" be said while I am at the party and "you would have come" after the party without being a clause "I knew"?. Thank you.

Fivejedjon · Answer

Anonymousif we turn to the part example, I have just thought that, maybe, it can be said "you would come" while I am at the party and "you would have come" after the party, meaning that I am/was expected to come to the party. When you think about again, can "you would come" be said while I am at the party and "you would have come" after the party without being a clause "I knew"?. Thank you.

We can say 'You would come' though it's not particularly polite, and it is not appropriate in the context you outlined originally. It suggests that the speaker is not particularly pleased about the situation. We'd use the same words after the party, not 'You would have come'.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, I see now, your explanation is really so informative to me. Here, please let me ask something about "would". Please consider that I have a list of the people who will join in a meeting. One person in the list has informed me that he cannot join in the meeting. I can say "he would join in the meeting but he cannot", is that right? And, after the meeting, I can say "he would have joined in the meeting but he couldn't", is that right?

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousPlease consider that I have a list of the people who will join in a meeting. One person in the list has informed me that he cannot join in the meeting. I can say "he would join in the meeting but he cannot", is that right? And, after the meeting, I can say "he would have joined in the meeting but he couldn't", is that right?

Not quite right. This person's name is on a list, but has said he cannot attend. It doesn't work, on the basis of only that, to say "He would join in the meeting, but he can't". It suggests (to me, anyway) that he wanted to attend the meeting, but that's not clearly established by the fact that his name is on a list.

Before the meeting:
He is supposed to attend the meeting, but he can't.
He was supposed to attend the meeting, but he can't.

After the meeting:
He was supposed to attend the meeting, but he couldn't.
________

Changing your scenario a little: He was invited to your party, and he wanted to go, but something came up, and he had to cancel.

Before:
He would join us if he could, but he can't.
After:
He would have joined us if he could have, but he couldn't.

These last two sound incomplete to me without their if-clauses.

CJ

Would have V3

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