would have had

Question

1. If he knew this,it would have had to be only accident.is this correct? I have trouble understanding "would have had to be."

Fandorin · Accepted Answer

Hi, Akdom.
1. If he knew this,it would have had to be only an accident.
If he knew this, it would have been only an accident.
It sounds better.
Indeed, it's alright. Would have had to - it's Future in the Past Perfect Tense. But it's rare used that way.

CalifJim · Answer

only by accident.
If he knew it, it must have been because he found out by accident. ~ If he knew it, it would have had to be only by accident.
have to = must, but must can't be used in all the tenses, so have to substitutes:
I have to / I had to / I will have to / I would have to / I have had to / I had had to / I will have had to / I would have had to
Don't let the two uses of have confuse you. One have is the auxiliary verb that forms the perfect tense; the other have is the one that means must. would have had to is a very, very useful verb phrase, well worth memorizing:

If the door had been locked, I would have had to use the key.
If all the seats in the front had been taken, he would have had to take a seat in the back.
If Lucy had not been there to help, Karen would have had to do all the work herself.
CJ

Fandorin · Answer

If he knew it, it would have had to be only by accident. - Is it Mixed Conditional where first part is related to Second type and the second to Third type?
Is it possible to use "an" with changing gist of sentence?

Cool Breeze · Answer

akdom1. If he knew this,it would have had to be only accident.

is this correct? I have trouble understanding "would have had to be."

No wonder you have trouble. Would have had implies compulsion and none is involved in your (ungrammatical) sentence. Change it to:
If he knew this/that, it must have been accidental.

CB

CalifJim · Answer

FandorinIs it a Mixed Conditional where the first part is related to the Second type and the second to the Third type?

Yes.

FandorinIs it possible to use "an" without changing the gist of the sentence?

I'm assuming you meant "without".
Not to my ear. "An accident" indicates an unfortunate occurrence. "By accident" indicates unintentionally. The two are somewhat related, however.
CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Cool Breezeyour (ungrammatical) sentence

Ungrammatical?

Not in American English!
I think your version is better, but I don't agree that the original is ungrammatical.

If he saw the bridge through the fog, it would have been a miracle.

I think these patterns are "mixed" because they are not true hypotheticals.
They are closer to purely past indicative statements like
If I was tired, it was understandable. (I had worked hard all day.)
CJ

Cool Breeze · Answer

CalifJim
Cool Breezeyour (ungrammatical) sentence
Ungrammatical? Not in American English!

" If he knew this,it would have had to be only accident."
Hmm... If only accidentis grammatical American English, why did you change it?

CB

Fandorin · Answer

Thanks CJ. Yes, it's time to work more closely on  the articles. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

CalifJim · Answer

Cool BreezeHmm... If only accident is grammatical American English, why did you change it?

Aha! Now I see. Yes, yes. Of course, the sentence with only accident has to be changed. I had thought you were referring to the sentence as intended (with by accident). The omission of by I regarded almost as a typo.
I thought you were pointing out an ungrammaticality either of "would have had to" or of combining "knew" (from the second conditional pattern) with "would have" (from the third conditional pattern). Your mentioning "would have" and also 'correcting' it to must havewithin the same discussion got me off on the wrong path there.

CJ

Cool Breeze · Answer

CalifJimYour mentioning "would have" and also 'correcting' it to must have within the same discussion got me off on the wrong path there.

Jim, these things happen! It's my fault as much as yours. I was a little hasty and the overall impression I got from the original sentence led me to my comment. Anyway, I think it's clear from my previous post that I do not consider would have had ungrammatical per se as I said it implies compulsion.
So, I consider would have had...incorrect in the original poster's sentence, and you think it's correct. This world is big enough to accommodate our two views!

We agree onaccident being wrong, and I think everybody who speaks English shares our opinion.
Cheers, CB

would have had

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions