wong more time

Question

Hi,if I speak slowly I say "one more", but as soon as I speed up, I tend to switch to something like "wong more time" (there's no N, it turns to an NG as in king).The same happens to "milk and sugar". Not slowly, it becomes practically the same as "milking sugar".Any advice? Thanks.

MrPedantic · Accepted Answer

Hello Kooyeen,

You could keep the tip of your tongue further forward.

MrP

CalifJim · Answer

Don't plug up the back of your throat with your tongue!

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

CalifJimDon't plug up the back of your throat with your tongue!

Yeah, that's what I do, without knowing why.

I'll have to be careful.

But in fast speech, doesn't anybody say "wom more time"? Or is that what we hear and comes out, but in reality there's always an N? (that is, the tip of the tongue always touches the roof, so there's always an N, even if it can be so quick that no one actually hears it and they just hear "wom more"?)

Thanks

MrPedantic · Answer

I thought we were talking "wong", not "wom".

Kooyeen · Answer

MrPedanticI thought we were talking "wong", not "wom".

Yep, but I tend to say that too, LOL

it's something between "wom" and "wong"... there's no N anyway.

CalifJim · Answer

in fast speech, doesn't anybody say "wom more time"?

Yup. This sounds more believable than that bit about wong.

Can you say,

One stays, and ten go

without making it teng + go (as in tango)?

Some speakers of Romance languages have a rough time with that.

You might try practicing that as a way of learning how to suppress unwanted ng's.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

CalifJim Can you say,

One stays, and ten go

without making it teng + go (as in tango)?

Wow, you found another good example of what I tend to say... I tend to say teng go! LOL
However, I can also say "ten go" if I want. it's just that I tend to replace a lot of N's with NG's, it's something that comes natural to me. I believe it's because of my dialect, where all final N's are pronunced like English NG's.
So I think I had better pay a little more attention to N's and NG's... hehehe.

Oh, I'd like to ask wong more thing. If people in fast speech say "wom more", is it because the N becomes very weak and it's practically impossible to hear it (--> won-more), or is it because the N disappears completely for real? (wom-more) If that is the case and the N actually disappears completely, then the tip of the tongue shouldn't even move while saying "one more".

Thanks

CalifJim · Answer

because of my dialect, where all final N's are pronunced like English NG's.

Hmm. You must be from the northwest section of Italy. Yes? Piedmont area? bang for bene?
________

Oh, I'd like to ask wong more thing. If people in fast speech say "wom more", is it because the N becomes very weak and it's practically impossible to hear it (--> won-more), or is it because the N disappears completely for real? (wom-more) If that is the case and the N actually disappears completely, then the tip of the tongue shouldn't even move while saying "one more".

You may be "digging too deep". These are just the usual gradations of reduction, common to all such variants in pronunciation, and as far as general principles are concerned, there is nothing special about this case.
In the first level of reduction, the N becomes weak. The tongue moves into the position for N and then into the position for M, but whether the N becomes audible is just the random effect of the exact amount of force of the air pressure, the exactness of the positioning of the tongue, the speed of articulation, and a thousand other parameters which are only microscopically measurable. The most drastic level of reduction is the one you describe last -- where the N disappears completely and the lack of motion of the tongue is as you describe it.
Any and all of these variants are within the realm of "speaking English".

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

CalifJimYou may be "digging too deep".

I sure am, LOL. Well, the fact is that when I say "wong more", that NG is actually so difficult to hear that it's actually "wom more". In other words, I say a "wom more" that tends to "wong more".
The problem is that these kinds of reductions are not explained anywhere. I learned about a lot of features, like T + Y - CH, for example, but I've never been told that "one more" becomes "wom more". Those things probably come natural after a lot of practice... well, that NG is what came out instead, LOL. And I generalized that to a lot of similar cases, so I say "milking sugar" instead of "milk and sugar".
But I have a solution: I will always try to pronounce the N's, so I will be sure my tongue moves the right way, even if no "clear sounds" come out.

EDIT: I just realized I still have some doubts... I was wondering if there are some cases where N becomes NG. We said that doesn't happen in "one more" or "milk and sugar", but what about "one killer", or "me and grandma"? Hmm.
Thanks.

CalifJimHmm. You must be from the northwest section of Italy. Yes? Piedmont area? bang for bene?

North, but not northwest... Good guess, though. Better luck next time

Anyway, I guess that's a common feature of many northern dialects, but I have no idea what dialects have final NG 's instead of N's. I actually say "beng" for "bene". I can't think of a single word that ends in N + vowel right now. I guess they all end in NG.

MrPedantic · Answer

KooyeenEDIT: I just realized I still have some doubts... I was wondering if there are some cases where N becomes NG. We said that doesn't happen in "one more" or "milk and sugar", but what about "one killer", or "me and grandma"?

It sounds likely. I must listen out for it.

Some BrE speakers say "ung-yen" for "onion".

MrP

wong more time

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