(wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's

Question

In the sense of (fe)male, how does one choose between (wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's?
e.g. (wo)man/(wo)man's/(wo)men/(wo)men's scent/clothing/jacket/running shoes/college/washroom/hall of residence/moisturizer/jeans/bicycle?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

"KDL" (Email Removed) schrieb im Newsbeitrag
[nq:1]In the sense of (fe)male, how does one choose between (wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's? e.g. (wo)man/(wo)man's/(wo)men/(wo)men's scent/clothing/jacket/running shoes/college/washroom/hall of residence/moisturizer/jeans/bicycle?[/nq]
I'm all for sexual equality, but let's take the male version only, as it's easier to type. :-) The rules are the same for "woman" as for "man".

The rule is this: to make the possessive (sometimes called "genitive") form of a noun, add 's. BUT: If the noun is a plural ending in -s, add the apostrophe only.
So, taking a noun like "dog":
one dog
two dogs
the dog's = of the dog
the dogs' = of the dogs
With "man" (and "woman"), the plural is "men" it does not end in -s. So, it takes this pattern:
one man
two men
the man's
the men's
So: "man" is the singular, "men" is the plural. Use "man's" if you mean "of the man" or "of a man"; use "men's" if you mean "of the men" or "of men".

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In the sense of (fe)male, how does one choose between (wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's? e.g. (wo)man/(wo)man's/(wo)men/(wo)men's scent/clothing/jacket/running shoes/college/washroom/hall of residence/moisturizer/jeans/bicycle?[/nq]
[nq:1]I'm all for sexual equality, but let's take the male version only, as it's easier to type. :-) The rules ... if you mean"of the man" or "of a man"; use "men's" if you mean "of the men" or "of men".[/nq]
To sum all that up and answer the original question, you should write (wo)men's clothing.

Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden

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KDL:
[nq:1]In the sense of (fe)male, how does one choose between (wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's? e.g. (wo)man/(wo)man's/(wo)men/(wo)men's scent/clothing/jacket/running shoes/college/washroom/hall of residence/moisturizer/jeans/bicycle?[/nq]
You choose the proper pluralization/possession at the end of "(wo)-man" just as you would do it for any other "man" or "woman". Just because Jamie Lee Curtis has BOTH sets os *** organs, that doesn't mean the grammar rules for dicussing her and her possessions are any different than for a regular man or woman. For example, "the (wo)-man's bag is there", "the two (wo)-men's bags are over there". Though, it just hit me, "(wo)-men" and "(wo)-men's" are probably very rarely used because it'd imply that more than one (wo)man are somewhere together. Unless you're at some kind of tranny club, that's not likely to happen. If you see a (wo)-man and a regular woman or man together, you'd say "the (wo)-man and the man's stuff is over there", etc. Hope this helped!

Usenet · Answer

Alan:
[nq:1]To sum all that up and answer the original question, you should write (wo)men's clothing.[/nq]
NOT necessarily. "(Wo)men's clothing" is probably equally acceptable as "(wo)men clothing". It'd also be very likely to see "(wo)man clothing". Of course, this kinda all depends on context.
Let's assume a woman is considering whether to buy something from the men's department or the women's department. She might say, "I'd rather have woman clothes than man clothes". In this example, "woman" and "man" act as adjectives that mean essentially the exact same thing as "woman's" and "man's". A salesperson might also say something like, "men clothing is over there, women clothing is over here". It all depends on context. Some of the person's other examples, such as "washroom", "college", probably wouldn't often be seen in any form other than the "men's room", "women's college", plural-possessive form.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In the sense of (fe)male, how does one choose between (wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's? e.g. (wo)man/(wo)man's/(wo)men/(wo)men's scent/clothing/jacket/running shoes/college/washroom/hall of residence/moisturizer/jeans/bicycle?[/nq]
"Men's" and "women's" for all of them. However, "It's a man's world."

By the way, I wouldn't use "male" or "female" in this sense, and I'd use "masculine" or "feminine" only for a few of them (scent, clothing, jacket, conceivably running shoes and jeans), and only in the sense of "emphasizing the wearer's masculinity or femininity".

Jerry Friedman

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1] So, taking a noun like "dog": one dog two dogs the dog's = of the dog the dogs' = ... you mean "of the man" or "of a man"; use "men's" if you mean "of the men" or "of men".[/nq]
Yes. And when "media" is singular, it is "the media's methods." But when "media" is plural, it is "the medias' methods."

Now please, no follow-ups. There's no use trying to show off and pretend that this simple thing is all complicated.

\P. Schultz

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...
}> So: "man" is the singular, "men" is the plural. Use "man's" if you mean "of }> the man" or "of a man"; use "men's" if you mean "of the men" or "of men". }
} Yes. And when "media" is singular, it is "the media's methods." } But when "media" is plural, it is "the medias' methods." }
} Now please, no follow-ups. There's no use trying to show off and } pretend that this simple thing is all complicated.

So you mean the Return key on the library's catalog terminal is properly the medias' Enter?

R. J. Valentine

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Yes. And when "media" is singular, it is "the media's methods." But when "media" is plural, it is "the medias' methods."[/nq]
I was under the impression that a.u.e was in general sympathetic to people (including newbies) who post language questions.

KDL, what The Grammer Genious has just posted, and which I've quoted above, is completely wrong.
I expect that many a.u.e readers will recognise that for ourselves. "When 'media' is singular" indeed! "Media" is certainly misused as a singular. IMHO it's not a good idea to give advice that implies that it's a correct usage. "the medias' methods." indeed! That was a leg-pull, right?
[nq:1]Now please, no follow-ups.[/nq]
That's no way to behave! You post to a public forum, you invite challenges.

Richard Sabey Visit the r.p.crosswords competition website cryptic fan at hotmail.com http://www.rsabey.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rpc/

Usenet · Answer

"The Grammer Genious" (Email Removed) schrieb im Newsbeitrag
[nq:1]Yes. And when "media" is singular, it is "the media's methods." But when "media" is plural, it is "the medias' methods."[/nq]
Many people use "media" as a singular, but the singular is properly "medium". In another post, I defended the singular use of "data", but here it's different. We don't view data as a collection of more than one datum, but rather as a mass noun, i.e. uncountable (similarly to "sugar" as in "Does sugar add anything to this recipe?").
The media, however, are clearly made up of more than one medium radio, television, newspapers etc. The case for resisting "the media is..." is much greater. In any case, I've never heard anybody use the word "medias" as a plural.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Now please, no follow-ups.[/nq]
[nq:1]That's no way to behave! You post to a public forum, you invite challenges.[/nq]
Yes, Miss Grundy. Must I go into the cloakroom?
\P. Schultz

(wo)man, (wo)man's, (wo)men, & (wo)men's

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