without 'will' ?

Question

Hello there,Here's a sentence from a TV series 'Lost', episode 20, season 3. One of the characters says:'Well, I certainly hope he helps you (this time)' I was wondering... why not 'will help you' ???I'm not sure whether there was 'this time' added but I think it doesn't make much of a difference, does it?Best wishes,

Kooyeen · Accepted Answer

Hi,
I asked a similar question very recently. I was told that after "hope" you can use the simple present too.

I can't find my glasses. I hope I find them by this evening...
I can't find my glasses. I hope I'll find them by this evening...

Philip · Answer

KooyeenHi,
I asked a similar question very recently. I was told that after "hope" you can use the simple present too.

I can't find my glasses. I hope I find them by this evening...
I can't find my glasses. I hope I'll find them by this evening...

I'm a native speaker, and I have never heard this specific idea before. It certainly sounds natural. Thanks!

Forum_mail · Answer

so... both 'helps' and 'will help' are ok here?

Kooyeen · Answer

Yes.
But it would be interesting to find out if there are other verbs like that, like "hope". I can't think of any...

Maybe some natives might come up with some ideas...

Marcelinx · Answer

That doesn't soud like present simple to me. Present simple is used for opinions and beliefs, but "hope" expresses neither and opinion nor a belief. It expresses a WISH. And with a wish, you can only use one verb tense: Subjunctive. Most people don't know this verb tense, because it's very unusual and strange. Why? Because in this verb tense, you don't say he/she/it helps - you say he/she/it help. That's right. I'm a 100% sure the guy from Lost used subjunctive. And why did he say "helps" and not "help"? Because it would have been very formal, and they were in an informal situation, I guess.
So don't memorize hope = present simple, because it's not even true. And don't memorize hope = subjunctive. Memorizer this: WISH - subjunctive, because this way, you'll always know if the verb requires this verb tense.
It's very unusual that people in this community told Kooyeen and you that this is present simple when it's actually subjunctive. Even so, you shouldn't use subjunctive with your friends - it's very formal. Just use simple present, but remember it is incorrect, because it isn't used for a wish.
Well, I certainly hope he help you.
Regarding to "will help you"... That's incorrect too... It would be a lot easier if you were brazilian or spanish because this way I could explain why to you with a translation. Well, if anyone here is spanish or brazilian, I'll give you a very believable and convinceable explanation of why you use subjunctive and not future simple or present simple:

Ojalá él muera. CIERTO presente del subjuntivo
Ojalá él morirá. NO ESTÁ CIERTO futuro simple
Ojalá él more. NO ESTÁ CIERTO presente del indicativo

Lo que ocurre es que en inglés, el subjunctive es solo el presente del subjuntivo.

Tomara que ele morra. CERTO presente do subjuntivo
Tomara que ele morrerá. NÃO ESTÁ CERTO futuro do presente
Tomara que ele morre. NÃO ESTÁ CIERTO presente do indicativo

O que ocorre é que em inglês, o subjunctive é só o presente do subjuntivo.
_____I hope this help___

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but first, google the word subjunctive before you say I'm lying.

Mister Micawber · Answer

We welcome your opinions, Marcelinx, but it is dangerous to try to compare your native language so closely with English-- they do not work the same way. Nor is your logic very careful.

Well, I certainly hope he helps you.

There is nothing subjunctive about this. The form of the subjunctive verb-- as you said-- is the same for all persons: I help, you help, he help.

Hope (and it may have been my comments that Kooyeen refers to) indeed is among the verbs that commonly take the present simple indicative for future reference in preference to the 'will' future. Other verbs are see, assume, suppose and a few more (I suppose the train is on time). In addition, there are many more verbs for which the future can be cast as simple present indicative in the subordinate clause.

The use of the subjunctive in true unreal clauses (I wish I were King) is slowly being superseded by the indicative equivalent (I wish I was King), to the extent that the subjunctive form is needed only on language examinations and English class essays. It is not a matter of who you are speaking to, certainly.

CalifJim · Answer

That doesn't soud like present simple to me.

It may not sound like present simple to you; nevertheless, that's exactly what it is.

The correct form is:

I hope he helps you.

The subjunctive is incorrect:

I hope he help you.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

why not 'will help you' ?

The simple present can be used to indicate the future. It's not that unusual.

-- When do you take the exam?
-- I take the exam tomorrow.

Give him the address so that he knows where to find us.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Regarding to "will help you"... That's incorrect too... It would be a lot easier if you were brazilian or spanish because this way I could explain why to you with a translation

You are proceeding from the point of view that only Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese have chosen the correct tenses to be used in certain situations!

It seems that you don't know that each language has its own pattern of usage. The correct tense for a given situation is different from language to language. There is not one correct way to determine the correct tense for a given situation. What is correct for a given thought depends on which language you want to use to express it.

Spanish and Italian use the past subjunctive after if, for example, whereas French uses the imperfect.
Spanish uses the present subjunctive after (most cases of) when (and other adverbial conjunctions of time), whereas French and Italian use the future, and English uses the present indicative.

Many of the world's languages do not use the subjunctive at all. Its use in English is somewhat limited compared with other European languages.

CJ

Marcelinx · Answer

Well, I'm sorry, but at least for me, it's very hard to see future or present when you have a subjunctive in your mother language that perfectly fits the situation. For me, present talks about present, same with future. That being said, can somebody explain to me how "Well, I certainly hope he will help you" is fine?
I thought about all the conditionals I know, and "will" never replaces what is called subjunctive in my language, which is portuguese. Present sometimes do (like in the first conditional: "When you leave, I'll miss you"): in this case, it replaces what is called in portuguese the future subjunctive.
But I've never seen portuguese's subjunctives being replaced by will.
So, why can you say "Well, I certainly hope he will help you" and "Well, I certainly hope he helps you". Aren't there appropriate subjunctive verb tenses for this cases?

Thank you

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