With

Question

With   a little more care, I would have avoided the accident. Does the use of 'with' above make sense to you native speakers?

Mae · Accepted Answer

Yes, in that sentence the word "with" is used to indicate "using". ("With" is a word with more than one meaning).

Here are more uses of "with", all describing something that is used:

"With a good shampoo, I could have washed the peanut butter out of my hair".
"With a tent, we would have been warmer last night".
"With a car, we could have made the trip in just a few hours".

You can replace the word "with" with "using" in all of these sentences.
Mae

Taka · Answer

But recently I had this conversation with another poster:

An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country would send its leading humorists to represent it. Instead of an atmosphere of promp and seriousness that would normally be dictated by such an occasion, there would prevail a lightheartedness, with an asssembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions.

Taka: About ' with an asssembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions', if I rewrite it as ' if there were an asssembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions', do you native speakers still feel that it naturally fits in the context? Or does it NOT sound the same as the original phrase?

j7: "if there were" is correct as well , however it slightly changes the meaning. "with" carries the connotation that the "assembly of indiviuals..." exists somewhere. "If there were" conveys more the fact that such an "assembly of individuals..." has never been created or has never existed

http://www.EnglishForward.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=72913

MrPedantic · Answer

An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country would send its leading humorists to represent it. Instead of the atmosphere of pomp and seriousness that would normally be dictated by such an occasion, lightheartedness would prevail, with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions.

(I've amended this text slightly, to make what follows easier to understand.)

I would agree with Mae that 'with' can often be replaced with 'using' in such statements.

Generally, though, I would take this use of 'with' as an implicit 'being' clause:

1. 'with X,...' =

a) 'with (the accompaniment of) X,...' = 'as a result of the accompaniment of X,...'; OR

b) 'with (the presence of) X,...' = 'as a result of the presence of X,...'; OR

c) 'with X (being the case/being true),...' = 'after X,..', 'given X,...'

I expect there are other nuances.

Examples:
a) 'With luck, my train will be on time.'

b) 'With an assembly of individuals,...'

c) 'With error message 709, however, the only option is to press CTRL+ALT+DEL.'

This use can be distinguished from '(Together) with X,...'

2. '(Together) with the rest of English Forums, I stared at the long and increasingly bewildering post from MrPedantic.'

MrP

Taka · Answer

So, you wouldn't usually use "with" as something equivalent to "if were..." and the like ~~which indicate something unreal~~ when the main clause is the subjunctive mood?

MrPedantic · Answer

Maybe, yes:

'With something unreal, on the other hand, where the main clause was in the subjunctive mood, I might well want to use a with-clause. It would then be the equivalent of an if-were clause.'

'If I were discussing something unreal, on the other hand, where the main clause was in the subjunctive mood, I might well want to use a with-clause...'

In your original example, though, the 'with an assembly' seems to serve as a restatement.

MrP

Taka · Answer

In your original example, though, the 'with an assembly' seems to serve as a restatement.

Hmm...My interpretation is:

Sending leading humorists:a fantasy-->Then they would have an asssembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions-->Accordingly, lightheartedness would prevail.

So, 'with...' doesn't seem to be conditional.

(By the way, isn't 'though' unneseccarily in your last sentence? To me, it seems that you're saying the same thing in the sentense as stated in front)

MrPedantic · Answer

Ah! I see what you mean.

That makes it difficult. In spoken English, the 'with' clause would then precede the 'light-heartedness' clause; to prevent confusion ('with-clause qualifies atmosphere etc'), it would have a particular 'suspenseful' tune.

In written English, we could probably only mark the difference between the two versions (with-clause clarifies 'atmosphere' vs with-clause prepares for lightheartedness-clause) by running the two last clauses together:

1. Clarifies 'atmosphere' (seemingly contradictory)

'An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country sent its leading humorists to represent it. Instead of the atmosphere of pomp and seriousness that would normally be dictated by such an occasion, with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions, light-heartedness would prevail.

2. Prepares for 'lightheartedness'

'An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country sent its leading humorists to represent it. Instead of the atmosphere of pomp and seriousness that would normally be dictated by such an occasion, with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions light-heartedness would prevail.'

(In case #1, my 'though' would have been incorrect; in case #2, it could stand.)

MrP

Taka · Answer

If this part---'Instead of the atmosphere of pomp and seriousness that would normally be dictated by such an occasion'---were not in the original sentence, how do you perceive the difference between

with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions, light-heartedness would prevail.

light-heartedness would prevail, with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits

?

Taka · Answer

MrP?

MrPedantic · Answer

Oops. Sorry, I didn't see that, Taka.

I would say:

1. 'An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country sent its leading humorists to represent it. With an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions, light-heartedness would prevail.'

Here, I would read 'with an assembly' as further information about the conference of leading humorists, and 'light-heartedness' as the consequence of 'individuals bent on raising spirits'.

2. 'An appealing fantasy would be a great conference of the world's nations where, instead of politicians or statesmen, each country sent its leading humorists to represent it. Light-heartedness would prevail, with an assembly of individuals bent on raising spirits instead of suspicions.'

Here, I would read 'Light-heartedness' as the consequence of the conference of leading humorists, and 'with an assembly...' as further information about the conference.

#2 seems to put more emphasis on how the conference would produce lightheartedness, while #1 seems to put more emphasis on the triumph of light-heartedness.

On the other hand, it may look different in the morning!

MrP

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