will + have + been

Question

OK, I give up on this one.

My test asks me to explain the choice of "..... 'will have been' collected", the only reference I can find of will + have + been also has to include the gerund (ing) which makes the whole thing Future Perfect Continuous.

The whole sentence reads: Before the film begins all the tickets 'will have been' collected; no use of the gerund here??!!

The question goes on to ask me to explain "under what circumstances is the alternative answer 'are being' possible?"

This is holding me up from submitting my first module, I've been struggling with it on and off for over 2 weeks; any help would be most gratefully received.

Ta muchly

Helen

PS: I've been dipping in and out of the site for a couple of months and it has proved extremely useful, so thank you for the help I've already received unbeknown to yourselves. H

PPS: You may gather that grammar is not my strongest point - so please be gentle with any replies. H

Waïti · Accepted Answer

OK, if you're looking to use the gerund in your sentence then maybe something like : 'Before the film begins, the ushers will have been collecting the tickets' ?

I would think you need an 'active' form as opposed to a 'passive' form to be able to use the progressive tense, so you need to change the subject, which can no longer remain 'the tickets' but has to be the person that collects them.

How does it sound to you ?

Kangiten · Answer

I'm going to try to help.

Future Perfect Simple, which is the tense used in your sentence, serves to indicate that an action that will take place in the future will be completed before another future action occurs.

In your sentence, the speaker makes an observation concerning two future actions (A: the film starts B: tickets are collected) and states now that B will be finished before A occurs, this is why FPS is used here.

Compare with the following:

"Before the film begins, all tickets will be collected".

This is different. The speaker here simply states that a future action will occur before another one and that's all.
In your original sentence, the speaker insists on the fact that one future action will be finished before another future action.

The only use of "are being" I can think of would be "Tickets are being collected before the movie begins"; in that case, the meaning is different: the speaker does not insist on the fact that an action is finished but rather is witnessing this action in process (e.g. the speaker is watching a person who is busy collecting the tickets before the movie starts and states that the action is occurring at the time he/she is speaking).

It's hard to explain though, is it clearer now?

HMG · Answer

Thanks Kangiten, not much clearer but I'll do some more homework on it as I've not heard of Future Perfect Simple - my grammar dates back to 1979 so maybe things have changed!!?

Any more problems, I'll get back to you.

Thanks again for speedy response

H

HMG · Answer

Thanks Waiti

I was still online when your response came through - great service! I'm not sure that the answer requires me to change the sentence; I think it has to stand as it is. I just have explain what is being tested by adding 'will have been' to the given sentence.

As I said in my original posting grammar is not top of the pops in my old brain so will have to do some homework on active and passive forms 'cos I got the ghist of what you where saying and want to know more!

Many thanks

H

CalifJim · Answer

"will have been" is the beginning of two different tenses. It depends on what follows.
"will have been collecting" is (Active) Future Perfect Continuous, also called (Active) Future Perfect Progressive.
"will have been collected" is Passive Futre Perfect, or Future Perfect Passive.

"are being collected" is Passive Present Continuous (or Progressive) or Present Continous (or Progressive) Passive.

The implication of "will have been collected" is that the ticket collection will happen first, and the ticket collection will be completely finished, and then the film will begin.

The implication of "are being collected" is that the ticket collection will happen first, and then the film will begin. It seems to me that there is less emphasis on the idea of completing the ticket collection, although in both cases ticket collection will be finished before the film begins, so I'm a little unclear about what they want you to say. Maybe they want you to point out that the present tense "are being" is used to indicate future time. That is, "are being collected" means "are going to be collected" in the second version.

CJ

HMG · Answer

Many thanks CJ

This has given me lots to go on. Had to read it twice to understand it all but I reckon I've got it.

Thanks again to all who have replied

H

PS: How do I sign this off as 'completed'?

CalifJim · Answer

Someone, maybe you?, has already marked it resolved (pull-down list at beginning of thread).
Other than that, there is no "off-switch"! Others may add further posts, but you can ignore them if you already have all you need!
CJ

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