Will future in if-clause / insistence

Question

Hello,I have just read a very interesting older thread that discussed the question under which circumstances the will-future can be used in an if-clause: Among other things, some people mentioned that the will-future could be used in an if-clause if it deals with someone who is insisting on something.I wonder if this would be applicable to the following sentence too:"If you will book a room in this shabby old hotel, I won't come with you."Does this sentence sound natural to you or does it sound odd?Thanks,ac2000

Canadian45 · Accepted Answer

If you will book a room in this shabby old hotel, I won't come with you."

Does this sentence sound natural to you or does it sound odd? It sounds odd with "will", but it will be natural if you omit "will".

Ac2000 · Answer

Thank you, canadian 45!

Fivejedjon · Answer

Your sentence sounds odd, as C45 said. These are possible:

If you will (are willing to) pay for the room, I will pay for the dinner.
If you will (insist on) book into in the cheapest hotel in town, don't complain if the service is poor.
If the dining room will be open early tomorrow (as they have told us it will), then we can have breakfast before we leave.

Ac2000 · Answer

Thank you fivejedjon!

It is still a bit complicated for me to understand the subtle differences when I compare these sentences:

If you will book a room in this shabby old hotel, I won't come with you. => wrong
If you will (insist on) book into in the cheapest hotel in town, don't complain if the service is poor. => right

So, if in the if-clause there was some kind of insisting, it would be OK to put "will" there, but only if the main clause does not include "will/won't"? Like this (?):

If you will book (insist on booking) a room in this shabby old hotel, I don't come with you.

Or is there no particular rule in this case and it simply sounds odd with some sentences and doesn't sound odd with others?

Fivejedjon · Answer

In If you will do something (= If you insist on doing something) the underlying meaning is similar to As you have insisted on doing it. The two points to bear in mind are that will is not normally used for insistence on a future situation, and that if can mean granted that.

While will is used in if- clauses far more often than most coursebooks suggest, it is a good idea for learners not oi try this. There is almost always a natural alternative.

Ac2000 · Answer

Thanks for clarification fivejedjon! So the insisting part does refer to something that happened in the past (the decision to do so already took place) and in this cases the "will" could be used.

CalifJim · Answer

ac2000some people mentioned that the will-future could be used in an if-clause if it deals with someone who is insisting on something.

In my opinion, the use of the "will of insistence" is rare. For one reason, again in my opinion, it often sounds like you are speaking to a spoiled child.

If you will play with fire, you'll get burnt. ~ If you insist on playing with fire, you'll get burnt.
(More extremely stated: Go ahead and play with fire if you're so stupid, and then see what happens. You'll be burnt, and you'll deserve it.)

Adult to adult conversations rarely resort to this style of expression unless one person is deliberately "talking down" to another in an irritated manner.
___________

Another factor is that, at least to my ear, the if-clause with the "will of insistence" requires an indication of the repetition of the undesirable behavior, thus emphasizing the source of irritation and frustration.

If you will continue to interrupt me, I will give you a good slap in the face.
If you will keep booking rooms in these shabby hotels every time we go on holiday, I will eventually refuse to go with you anymore.
If they will keep sending him notices to pay every week, as they have been doing, he will become irritated and refuse to pay at all.

You can use both will and insist:

If you will insist on interrupting me, I will give you a good slap in the face.
__________

As a learner of English, it hardly worth practicing such expressions because you may eventually embarrass yourself by using them. It's better just to know about these expressions so you can interpret them if you happen to read them somewhere, or hear others say them.

CJ

By the way, the will of insistence in an if-clause (with its accompanying main clause) may be a subset of reciprocal conditionals. They can be positive, involving bargaining (If you'll buy the pizza, I'll buy the beer) or negative, involving retaliation (If you will keep interrupting me, I'll slap you), but both cases feature reciprocity.

CJ

Ac2000 · Answer

Thank you CalifJim, for the clarification and the many interesting example sentences. I'll keep them in mind as special cases of conditional sentences. There doesn't seem to be a simple rule as it's often  the case with languages, but that's what makes it all the more interesting after all.

Will future in if-clause / insistence

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