Why do people use the term "British English"?

Question

The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very different. Scottish English sounds nothing like cockney English, for example. So when referring to spoken English, why do people use British English when they usually mean received pronunciation, i.e. a BBC accent as opposed to an American accent? Surely it would be better to, at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?
Cheers,
Matt

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very different. Scottish English sounds nothing like cockney English, for example. ... to an American accent? Surely it would be better to, at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
By "American accent" do you mean Appalachian, Cajun, Texan, Boston Brahmin, Brooklyn, Mississipi, Chicago, or something else?

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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very different. Scottish English sounds nothing like cockney English, for example. ... to an American accent? Surely it would be better to, at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
Because pronunciation is only a small part of what makes up a dialect. There are consistent differences in spelling, punctuation, syntax and vocabulary between American and British English, which apply regardless of the accent used to pronounce them.
It is true, I think, that some of our leftpondian contributors underestimate the differences to be found in the British Isles. Few British people would have any difficulty in expressing themselves, if they chose, in a dialect so extreme that few outside their native region would understand them, but such dialects are not normally written, and are not regarded as forming part of "standard" British English. Scottish English is an exception, in that it has a separate literary tradition, and, indeed, some claim to be regarded as a separate language, but in its modern form the differences from the English of England are fairly minor.

Don Aitken
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very different. Scottish English sounds nothing like cockney English, for example. ... to an American accent? Surely it would be better to, at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
It sounds as though Estuary English is becoming more English than RP.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very different. Scottish English sounds nothing like cockney English, for example. ... to an American accent? Surely it would be better to, at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
It's just a failure to distinguish between accent and language, isn't it? Saying that someone speaks "American English" can be just as bad, if what is meant is that they speak English with an American accent. It's simply fuzzy thinking.
(Knowing quite a few Brits who've spent some time in the USA, I've come across examples of people speaking American English with a British accent, and vice-versa).

Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very ... at the very least, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
[nq:1]It sounds as though Estuary English is becoming more English than RP.[/nq]
It's true, innit.

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The English spoken in different parts of Britain is very ... to, at the veryleast, separate English English from Scottish English?[/nq]
[nq:1]It's just a failure to distinguish between accent and language, isn't it? Saying that someone speaks "American English" can be ... spent some time in the USA, I'vecome across examples of people speaking American English with a British accent, and vice-versa).[/nq]
But the phrase "British accent" is even worse for amiguity than "British English"! There is no such thing as a British accent! You have a normal English accent (I suppose BBC English if you like), a Scottish accent, cockney, scouse, Manc, Welsh etc etc. Likewise in Yankee Doodle land there are loads of different accents. The term "American accent" seems often more acceptable though, because different accents in America are not THAT different to each other. However, different English accents can be VERY different, so saying "a British accent" is wrong.

For example, if someone says "I saw this guy on the telly today. He spoke with a British accent," then that is completely ambiguous. Was he Scottish, or English, or Welsh? What part of England does he come from?

Cheers,
Matt

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]But the phrase "British accent" is even worse for amiguity than "British English"! There is no such thing as a ... term "American accent" seems often more acceptable though, because different accents in America are not THAT different to each other.[/nq]
Well, to each other the accents are very different. To youse lot maybe they aren't.
[nq:1]However, different English accents can be VERY different, so saying "a British accent" is wrong. For example, if someone says ... then that is completely ambiguous. Was he Scottish, or English, or Welsh? What part of England does he come from?[/nq]
It's not "completely" ambiguous, as your subsequent question indicates; you know at least that he has some sort of accent associated with Britain.

Youse lot still use the word "telly"? I thought that was one of those Briticisms, like "jolly well better" and the affectionate "I say, old man", that had died out long ago, back before RP had lowered its cat vowels.
By the same Metrocard, to an American, saying someone has "an American accent" doesn't communicate a whole Freck of a lot.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]But the phrase "British accent" is even worse for amiguity than "British English"! There is no such thing as a ... then that is completely ambiguous. Was he Scottish, or English, or Welsh? What part of England does he come from?[/nq]
You have stumbled across a very important problem with very wide ramifications. Take Sean Connery for example. Many people say he speaks with a Scottish accent, which tells you absolutely nothing. Does he speak with the lilting consonantal precision of the North East Highlands, or the Glaswegian accent whose swallowing of consonants into an incoherent blur has been so brilliantly parodied by Billy Connolly? What part of Scotland does Connery come from?

Edinburgh.
But that tells us nothing! Does he speak with the refained raised-pinky accent of Morningside, or the rapid repartee of the South Side? Nothing like either of these. Connery's very distinctive drawled accent comes from the Fountainbridge part of Edinburgh. To an Edinburgensian from elsewhere that is suffiently precise an identification, but not in Fountainbridge. Which street? And was he from the rich end or the poor end of the street?
There is no end to this problem of categorisation until you discover the virtues of generalisation and abstraction, of tree structured taxonomies, In the old days before email people sent letters to one another in addressed envelopes. If you can find one of those, study the address. It may help to solve your problem.

Chris Malcolm (Email Removed) +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK (http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Youse lot still use the word "telly"? I thought that was one of those Briticisms, like "jolly well better" and the affectionate "I say, old man", that had died out long ago, back before RP had lowered its cat vowels.[/nq]
We certainly do. What's on the telly tonight?
If you are interviewed during the day by a roving reporter, you might run into your house shouting "I'm going to be on telly tonight".

David
==

Usenet · Answer

In both cases the term "*** accent" conveys some degree of meaning to persons exterior to the group indicated by "***" As RF notes British accent "indicates ... some sort of accent associated with Britain", which is actual information to that group of people who do not possess some sort of accent associated with Britain but who might recognize various elements of one or more of the various regional accents current in the UK. Thus Spike of Buffy & Angel fame employs a cartoonish accent which for the purposes of the TV show is associated with Britain and therefore fits into the plot line. Consider it a mercy that Angel does not often demonstrate his scripted Irish roots.
Likewise, saying that someone has an "American accent" (of whatever regional origin) indicates to non-USans some sort of accent associated with the USA. It need not be any more genuine than Spike's "British accent" but it still conveys meaning. The fact that neither term conveys precision of meaning is entirely beside the point.

KHann

Why do people use the term "British English"?

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