Why 11 players in football/soccer?

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HelloWould you know whether there is any truth in the belief that the number of players in a football team is in any way linked to the number of school-boys sleeping in the same dormitory in English boarding-schools in the old days? That's what has been asserted on a Frog radio station recently, but I feel a bit suspicious.I've consulted the soccer FAQ http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/FAQ/2024-4 which says that question "needs an answer". Isabelle Cecchini

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[nq:1]Hello Would you know whether there is any truth in the belief that thenumber of players in a football team ... but I feel a bit suspicious. I've consulted the soccer FAQ http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/FAQ/2024-4 which says that question "needs an answer".[/nq]
Interesting question; but I think you're right to be sceptical. My impression is that schools never had a standard size of dormitory, and indeed that many maybe most school boarding-houses were just ordinary houses, not purpose-built, so they couldn't have been standardised. I don't remember precisely, but I think my house, which had 64 boys, had two twenty-four-man dorms, a twelve and a four. My only visit, some thirty-odd years later to show my own children round, revealed that things had been greatly remodelled to allow boys more privacy and a rather less Spartan existence.
Let's remember, too, that the other standard code of British football has teams of fifteen (reduced to thirteen in a variant form).

The nominal strength of a British infantry section was once eleven, too: I think it's just a convenient number.

Mike.

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[nq:1]Hello Would you know whether there is any truth in the belief that the number of players in a football ... but I feel a bit suspicious. I've consulted the soccer FAQ http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/FAQ/2024-4 which says that question "needs an answer".[/nq]
It does. And I would like to see the answer to a wider question, namely "Why do so many sports have eleven players on each side?" Assuming football = soccer here, it's worth remembering that football began as a mass activity with no limit on the size of a team or, often, playing area. Village would play village, guild vs guild, school vs school etc. Useful background to the origins at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football
It doesn't seem at all clear when the team number was established at 11 but it seems to have been codified at that in the mid-19th Century at the formation of the English Football Association. This contained representatives from clubs and schools.
I doubt if anyone can show, however, that there were English public schools that consistently had dormitories with 11 boys in each. It might, possibly, have been true of one school at one time, but I doubt it was general. In any case, I thought French radio were as aware as the rest of us that the occupants of English dormitories were occupied with one or other of the "vices anglais" and therefore excused PE.
John Dean
Oxford

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[nq:1]Would you know whether there is any truth in the belief that thenumber of players in a football team is in any way linked to the number of school-boys sleeping in the same dormitory in English boarding-schools[/nq]
I doubt it could possibly be. Schools were independent administratively, and many still are, and they have always been architecturally independent.
[nq:1]in the old days? That's what has been asserted on a Frog radio station recently, but I feel a bit suspicious.[/nq]
I suspect that "dormitory in English boarding-schools" has a strong connotation of English public school yes? And that English public schools do not stereotypically play football (in the sense of soccer (11 per side) but rather play football (in the sense of rugby (15 per side). I know Billy Bunter of Greyfriars used to (not) play "footer", but I don't see that as kanonikal.

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[nq:1]Hello Would you know whether there is any truth in the belief that the number of players in a football ... but I feel a bit suspicious. I've consulted the soccer FAQ http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/FAQ/2024-4 which says that question "needs an answer".[/nq]
For American football, the rules were totally revamped at the insistence of President T Roosevelt, who was alarmed at the number of injuries. At least one rationale being that reducing the number of players would be beneficial to that objective. Canada settled on 12. MS Encarta says that early Gaelic football had up to 100 players and pitches that extended from one village to another...

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It's true that most English boarding schools (exclude Borstal young offenders institutions for a start) would likely claim to be a 'public school', unless they were a preparatory school catering for prospective entrants to the public schools. But soccer-football is as much a game of the public schools as is rugger-football. The Football Association (whence 'soccer') Challenge Cup (aka FA Cup) was won several times in its early years by the Old Etonians.
From

The first FA Cup competition in season 1871-72 had fifteen entries. (This season more than 600 took part.) Wanderers, a team formed by ex-public school and university players, won the first final 1-0 against Royal Engineers at Kennington Oval. A crowd of 2,000 attended the match and they each paid one shilling for the privilege. The first Cup Final goal was scored by Morton Betts, playing under the assumed name of 'A.H. Chequer'. He was an Old Harrovian who had once played for Harrow Chequers.
1872 Wanderers 1 Royal Engineers 0
1873 Wanderers 2 Oxford University 0
1874 Oxford University 2 Royal Engineers 0
1875 Royal Engineers 1 Old Etonians 1Royal Engineers 2 Old Etonians 0

1876 Wanderers 0 Old Etonians 0Wanderers 3 Old Etonians 0

1877 Wanderers 2 Oxford University 0 aet
1878 Wanderers 3 Royal Engineers 1
1879 Old Etonians 1 Clapham Rovers 0
1880 Clapham Rovers 1 Oxford University 0
1881 Old Carthusians 3 Old Etonians 0
1882 Old Etonians 1 Blackburn Rovers 0
1883 Blackburn Olympic 2 Old Etonians 1

There's plenty of public school chaps on the pitch in them there days.

During the 1800s football was an upper-class non-professional game played by university and military people. There were many versions of the rules: Eton (1841), Rugby (1846), Cambridge (1848), Sheffield (1857).
In 1863, the Football Association (FA) was formed to codify and promote the game. Under the FA the Cambridge rules were consolidated and matches were arranged. In 1871 it was decided to run a knockout competition for any club to enter. The competition was called the Football Association Challenge Cup (the FA Cup). This is the oldest football tournament in the world.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

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[nq:1]I suspect that "dormitory in English boarding-schools" has a strong connotation of English public school yes? And that English ... per side). I know Billy Bunter of Greyfriars used to (not) play "footer", but I don't see that as kanonikal.[/nq]
There are English public schools which have a soccer tradition, and English public schools which have a rugby tradition.

Matthew Huntbach

Why 11 players in football/soccer?

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