Whose fan? John Doe's fan or John Doe fan?

Question

Hi. Please help me with these.1. (If I can ask this correctly to reflect what I wanted to say) When you can replace a phrase with the possessive pronoun "whose," does that mean the phrase should be in the possessive. For example, if you can ask, " Whose fan are you?" then is it possible to answer, "I am a John Doe's fan" or "I am a fan of John Doe"? How about answering it, "I am John Doe fan"?2. Let us look at the phrases "Japanese cars" and "the cars of Japan." I think, if I am not mistaken, they pretty much mean the same. If we can use the of-genitive "the cars of Japan," is it possible to write "Japan's cars"? I think not. Does it mean not all phrases in of-genitive form can have their alternative forms in the possessive? Why do you think this is not possible? (I hope I wrote my questions clearly to reflect what I wanted to ask.)

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

1. (If I can ask this correctly to reflect what I wanted to say) When you can replace a phrase with the possessive pronoun "whose," does that mean the phrase should be in the possessive. For example, if you can ask, " Whose fan are you?" then is it possible to answer, "I am a John Doe's fan" Yes, as edited.

or "I am a fan of John Doe"? Yes

How about answering it, "I am a John Doe fan"? Only as edited. The phrase 'John Doe' here serves as an adjective. It's like saying 'a car door'.

2. Let us look at the phrases "Japanese cars" and "the cars of Japan." I think, if I am not mistaken, they pretty much mean the same. If we can use the of-genitive "the cars of Japan," is it possible to write "Japan's cars"? I think not. Yes, it's fine to write 'Japan's cars'. You could google, but my guess is that 'Japan's cars' would be more common than 'the cars of Japan'. ( But most common, I think, is 'Japanese cars'. )

Does it mean not all phrases in of-genitive form can have their alternative forms in the possessive?

Are you suggesting that eg 'He told a story of intrigue' can be replaced by 'He told intrigue's story'? No, it can't.

Nor can you change a sentence like 'He died of a heart attack'. But perhaps these are not the types of phrase you are thinking of.

Why do you think this is not possible? (I hope I wrote my questions clearly to reflect what I wanted to ask.)

Clive

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Thank you. In a thread I started named "Make it possessive or adjectival?" I introduced two phrases as part of my question, and they are "Republican opposition" and "American territory." As indicated by Mr Micawber, now I look at them, they are poor examples in the context of asking the question I asked.

I think if we can ask, "Whose "something" is it?," the possessive form should be used. For example, if I ask, "Whose pencil is this?," the answer should be in the possessive, "It is John Doe's." But those phrases, "American territory" and "Republican opposition," do not, as it seems to me, show possession. But how about the phrase "American colonies," which might appear in a history book? Could we ask, "Whose colonies are they?" or "Which country do they belong to?"? Then, I think a question might arise as to whether the word "belong" denotes possession. I think it doesn't always denote possession if we look at the writings out in the world.

If I am not mistaken, I think when you use the possessive, it denotes possession, but does the phrase "Japan's cars" show/denote possession? I think not. Then shouldn't it be incorrect as an alternative form of the phrase "Japanese cars"?

I am not sure I am asking specific questions but any help from you would be appreciated.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousI think a question might arise as to whether the word "belong" denotes possession. I think it doesn't always denote possession if we look at the writings out in the world.

Just a brief comment on this. belong usually does denote possession, but of does not always denote possession.

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Possibly you might also wish to try to define more closly what 'possession' means in your view.

eg If Japan does not 'possess its cars', does that suggest we can't say Japan's citizens or even Tom's children?

( These are. of course, things that we do say. )

Clive

Whose fan? John Doe's fan or John Doe fan?

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