Who you callin an oick?

Question

On "After Henry," the grandmother said something about the curate of their church: "You only have to hear his vowels to know he's a dreadful oick."

I dutifully googled before inquiring here. Some helpful soul had posted the OED entry, which reads...
oick, oik (OIk). slang. (Etym. obscure.) Depreciatory schoolboy word for a member of another school; an unpopular or disliked fellow-pupil. Also gen., an obnoxious or unpleasant person; in weakened senses, a 'nit-wit', a 'clot'. Hence 'oikish a., unpleasant, crude; 'oickman (see quot. 1925). 1925 Dict. Bootham Slang, Hoick,.. spit. Oick,.. to spit; abbreviated form of 'oickman'. Oickman,..labourer, shopkeeper, etc.; also a disparaging term.
'I say you oik, the Beach Boys latest is fab gear.' 1975 Listener 16 Jan. 83/1 The rigmarole about the flat was patent set-dressing, just to impress us oiks. 1975 Times 7 Aug. 7/7 His (sc. Oswald Mosley's) angels, a gang of gullible and bloodthirsty oiks.. would come pretty far down the roster of hell's legions.

... but this wasn't quite what I expected from the way it was used on the radio programme. Obviously it's derogatory, but is it regional, or class-based, or something else? Would it be considered fighting words if somebody called you one? Do grownups (not counting Prunella Scales' mother) use it, or only schoolboys? Is it out of date?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]On "After Henry," the grandmother said something about the curate of their church: "You only have to hear his vowels to know he's a dreadful oick."[/nq]
...
[nq:1]... but this wasn't quite what I expected from the way it was used on the radio programme. Obviously it's ... called you one? Do grownups (not counting Prunella Scales' mother) use it, or only schoolboys? Is it out of date?[/nq]
It's a class-based thing, something used to put down people who come from a lower social class. As your quote suggests, that would be detectable just from their accent.
As someone from a working-class background in England, yes, I would regard it as extremely offensive to be called that by someone from a higher social class background. I think I would feel the same way about it as a black person would who was called a "***" by a white person.

However, it is a rather out of date usage, and I suspect its use in "After Henry" was deliberately intended to portray someone who had old fashioned attitudes to social class which are no longer widely held or publicly maintained. That's not to say that there aren't groups of upper clas people who would use the word in private amongst themselves. However, the only public use of the word you'd see tehse days would be in an ironic or self-deprecatory way.
Matthew Huntbach

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]On "After Henry," the grandmother said something about the curate oftheir church: "You only have to hear his vowels to know he's a dreadfuloick."[/nq]
[nq:2]... but this wasn't quite what I expected from the ... use it, or only schoolboys? Is it out of date?[/nq]
[nq:1]It's a class-based thing, something used to put down people who come froma lower social class. As your quote suggests, ... However, the only public use of the word you'd see tehse days would be in an ironic or self-deprecatory way.[/nq]
Interesting that the BBC is free to depict a character like the grandmother frankly. I don't think any white character on American TV would be allowed to use a comparable word. Even Archie Bunker wasn't allowed to say "***," for example.

Usenet · Answer

Jess Askin typed thus:
[nq:1]their oick."[/nq]
[nq:1]the if mother)[/nq]
Most UK channels, when it's necessary, permit language which would be not be allowed on terrestrial US TV.
Although "oik" is derogatory, it is in no way comparable to "***".

David
==

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Although "oik" is derogatory, it is in no way comparable to "***".[/nq]
My first recollected meeting with the word 'oik' was indirect, through its derivative 'spoik', used by a Harrovian (a schoolboy at Harrow School, rather upper-class). He explained to me that a spoik was a spotted oik. Acned, I supposed, not merely observed.

One minute after posting that (ObAUE: but not sending, according to my newsreader terminology, hence my ability to retrieve and re-edit), the cat was sick.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Most UK channels, when it's necessary, permit language which would be not be allowed on terrestrial US TV.[/nq]
Observant of you to insert 'terrestrial', thus making your statement perfectly true. Had you not I'd have screamed ****** murder, being forced to point out that The Sopranos on HBO is available via satellite in the US. Isn't *** and the City also available only that way? The language in either isn't fit for puritanical American ears. Sad what that subset of America is missing since The Sopranos is one of the better dramas to be found on TV. The Radio Times may have said 'best'. Of the current crop I'd certainly say so.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Jess Askin typed thus:[/nq]
[nq:2]their oick."[/nq]
Would it be considered fighting words
[nq:2]if mother) Interesting that the BBC is free to depict ... word. Even Archie Bunker wasn't allowed to say"***," for example.[/nq]
[nq:1]Most UK channels, when it's necessary, permit language which would be not be allowed on terrestrial US TV. Although "oik" is derogatory, it is in no way comparable to "***".[/nq]
Well, it doesn't carry the historical and social weight of "***", which is derogatory not just of the individual insulted but of a vast population. And 'oik' refers to things that, if with difficulty, can be and often are changed: accent, manners, dress and so forth. A Black person cannot, and I would hope would not wish to, change those features that denote his or her race. Nevertheless, 'oik' is deeply hurtful, whether used directly as an insult or casually in conversation with the speaker's peers.

Still, I'm glad that the BBC and other UK media channels hold up the shaming mirror to such offensive behaviour. To depict is not to condone. Does US terrestrial TV not engage in satire and irony?
Alan Jones

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Although "oik" is derogatory, it is in no way comparable to "***".[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, it doesn't carry the historical and social weight of "***", which is derogatory not just of the individual insulted but of a vast population.[/nq]
Yes it 'oik' *is* derogatory of a vast population - it is intended to be derogatory of anyone who isn't born into the upper social classes.
[nq:1]And 'oik' refers to things that, if with difficulty, can be and often are changed: accent, manners, dress and so forth. A Black person cannot, and I would hope would not wish to, change those features that denote his or her race.[/nq]
The whole point about the "oik" insult is that no matter how you try to disguise your accent, style, etc, you will do something which betrays your origins and be uncovered as an oik - a dirty working-class oik, go back to the council estate where you came from.

Such thinking is now almost non-existent, which is why we can laugh at it and not take it too seriously, and indeed regard anyone who still thought in those terms as a figure of fun. However, the term was used in the past to hurt, and the intention of it was that no matter what you did, if you weren't born into the right social class you were still really an oik.
Matthew Huntbach

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]However, the term was used in the past to hurt, and the intention of it was that no matter what you did, if you weren't born into the right social class you were still really an oik.[/nq]
I had the impression that it was a code word, not an insult, and rather schoolboyish, used among peers.
Not like "Foreigner!":
The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest
It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad:
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad.

Flanders and Swann, as if I need to explain.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

Usenet · Answer

(snip)
[nq:1]Most UK channels, when it's necessary, permit language which would be not be allowed on terrestrial US TV.[/nq]
Just the other day, I achieved a certain smugness along these lines myself. I was watching "Australian Idol"(1): one young gel had been given a second chance to wind up on the pubs and clubs circuit in a couple of years' time, and was so emotional during her next rendition that she was moved, when it was over, to remark "That was shithouse".

I revelled in the fact that our mainstream free-to-air broadcasters consider their viewing public to be mature enough to survive such an utterance without the need to 'clean it up' in any way at all. I feel secure in my assumption that either (a) an equivalent American broadcaster would edit out/bleep the comment, or (b) if it snuck (sneaked? ... for good or ill, I prefer 'snuck') through unmolested, it would have caused a level of outcry sufficient to make me wonder whether those crying out ought to be allowed out into the world without holding their mother's hand at all times (cf JJ's nipple).

Such revelry was short-lived of course, as I soon remembered exactly what it was I was watching.
Mark@work
(1) One is allowed to watch absolute **** when one is wallowing in self-pity. In fact, it ought to be the recommended treatment, as nothing beats **** telly at letting you know that it really could be a whole lot worse.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Although "oik" is derogatory, it is in no way comparable to "***".[/nq]
[nq:1]My first recollected meeting with the word 'oik' was indirect, through its derivative 'spoik', used by a Harrovian (a schoolboy ... (ObAUE: but not sending, according to my newsreader terminology, hence my ability to retrieve and re-edit), the cat was sick.[/nq]
Sound cat you got there, Paul: I suppose it's too much to hope she reads the Guardian, but I'm sure she wasn't sick on it.

Mike.

Who you callin an oick?

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions