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KatieBeth Posted 20 years ago
Grammar
Who or Whom (yet again, sorry)
I've read through many of the previous posts on this subject (such as this one). It is like reading a foreign language seeing "object of the preposition" and "nominative vs. objective case." Would you please indulge a native speaker who was taught through example and thus never dissected sentences? I would be very grateful!
In a letter I am writing, the following sentence appears:
However, there are many things that I am unclear about and I do not know who to ask.
Microsoft is telling me to change the who to whom. I don't put much trust in Microsoft's success rates at grammar checking.
I know a correct phrase is "Whom should I ask?" but I don't understand why that is correct. I know it was answered in the thread I linked above, but I frankly don't understand what the difference is.
To be clear, I do want to know the actual rule and not the every day verbal usage. Is there a way I can understand this without an entire re-do of basic English?
I look forward to your responses,
Katie Beth
In a letter I am writing, the following sentence appears:
However, there are many things that I am unclear about and I do not know who to ask.
Microsoft is telling me to change the who to whom. I don't put much trust in Microsoft's success rates at grammar checking.
I know a correct phrase is "Whom should I ask?" but I don't understand why that is correct. I know it was answered in the thread I linked above, but I frankly don't understand what the difference is.To be clear, I do want to know the actual rule and not the every day verbal usage. Is there a way I can understand this without an entire re-do of basic English?
I look forward to your responses,
Katie Beth
Top answer
Hello Katie Rule: "whom" is to "him" as "who" is to "he": 1. Who likes grammar? He likes grammar.
- Hello Katie Rule: "whom" is to "him" as "who" is to "he": 1.
- Who likes grammar?
- He likes grammar.
- 2.
- Whom does she prefer?
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17 Answers
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Hello Katie
Rule: "whom" is to "him" as "who" is to "he":
1. Who likes grammar? He likes grammar.
2. Whom does she prefer? She prefers him.
Now take your sentence:
3. I don't know who(m) to ask.
(I've put the "m" in brackets, to show that we haven't yet decided whether it should be "who" or "whom".)
T
Rule: "whom" is to "him" as "who" is to "he":
1. Who likes grammar? He likes grammar.
2. Whom does she prefer? She prefers him.
Now take your sentence:
3. I don't know who(m) to ask.
(I've put the "m" in brackets, to show that we haven't yet decided whether it should be "who" or "whom".)
T
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KatieBethTo be clear, I do want to know the actual rule and not the every day verbal usage. Is there a way I can understand this without an entire re-do of basic English?As Microsoft will tell you, use "who" or "whoever" as the subject in a sentence. Use "whom" or "whomever" as an object or f
I look forward to your responses,
Katie Beth
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Thank you! I can handle that! LOL!
Does this "who=he, whom=him" rule have exceptions or is this a pretty good bet for the future?
I think I am a rarity in that whom was a frequent word in my household growing up.
Does this "who=he, whom=him" rule have exceptions or is this a pretty good bet for the future?
I think I am a rarity in that whom was a frequent word in my household growing up.
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Hello KatieBeth
"Whom" also relates to equivalents of "him":
1. Whom did you ask? — I asked her.
2. By whom was the payment authorized? — By me, I'm afraid.
etc.
The "rule" is a good bet – except that most people don't apply it, as you noted in your original post.
MrP
"Whom" also relates to equivalents of "him":
1. Whom did you ask? — I asked her.
2. By whom was the payment authorized? — By me, I'm afraid.
etc.
The "rule" is a good bet – except that most people don't apply it, as you noted in your original post.
MrP
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MrPedantic2. By whom was the payment authorized? — By me, I'm afraid.
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I'm not sure anyone speaks like people speak in our examples...
But I think in this instance, the financial controller (a fairly tetchy and pedantic fellow) fronted "By whom" because his main concern was to discover the identity of the payment-authorizing miscreant. And the hapless bought ledger clerk fronted "by me" in tremulous response.
In less fraught circumstances, the FC
But I think in this instance, the financial controller (a fairly tetchy and pedantic fellow) fronted "By whom" because his main concern was to discover the identity of the payment-authorizing miscreant. And the hapless bought ledger clerk fronted "by me" in tremulous response.
In less fraught circumstances, the FC
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Thank you so much! I've changed my letter (score 1 for Microsoft) and will remember this for the future!
I appreciate it (yet again).
I appreciate it (yet again).
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MrPedanticYou can say "Whom was the payment authorized by?", but (in spoken BrE, at least) it's likely to grate on your listener's ear a little.What about the him/he rule, then
MrP
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<What about the him/he rule, then?>
Yes...you have to feel a little sorry for it...
Yes...you have to feel a little sorry for it...
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At the risk of outraging the purists, I think this is an example of where modern usage has supplanted a previous "rule". Very few modern English speakers use the word "whom" in normal conversation. Indeed, most would be far more surprised to hear it spoken in a sentence, than by its its "non" appearance in a sentence where the "rule" says it "should" be.
So I would advise both native an
So I would advise both native an
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