While she...her children played in the garden

Question

Hello everyone,I'm seeking some help. I'm not sure if this sentence is grammatically correct:While she was baking a pie, her children played in the garden.It would mean that her childen started and finished playing while she was still baking. So is the sentence above possible?Many thanks in advanceMaria

Inchoateknowledge · Accepted Answer

Yes, possible, although the temporal relations regarding the two actions expressed in your sentence are poorly defined.

1. While she was baking a pie, her children played in the garden

2. While she was out, someone called.

While #2 is obvious (the act of calling is momentary), in #1 we do not know which lasted longer: the playing or the baking.

The problem of indefiniteness can be repaired thus:

Her children played in the garden during part of her baking a pie.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousWhile she was baking a pie, her children played in the garden.
It would mean that her childen started and finished playing while she was still baking.

The sentence is correct, but it doesn't mean what you think it means.

baking a pie ...[.[..[...(...............................).]..]..............]..].....

played .[..[.....[.(...............................)....].....].......]......]..

You are talking about the time between ( and ).

The beginnings of these activities could be at any of the times suggested by [ or others.

The endings of these activities could be at any of the times suggested by ] or others.

The sentence says nothing about the beginning and ending of either activity.

It only says that there was some stretch of time during which both activities were happening.

CJ

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Inchoateknowledge1. While she was baking a pie, her children played in the garden
2. While she was out [shopping/ walking her dog] , someone called.
InchoateknowledgeWhile #2 is obvious (the act of calling is momentary), in #1 we do not know which lasted longer: the playing or the baking.
I see no difference between these sentences. # 2 simply omitted the activity. For the same reason, we can also say " while she was in the kitchen [baking a pie], her children played in the garden.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you very much for the replies. I do agree that the beginning of the actions is not stated, but why does the same hold true for the ending? We use the past simple for finished actions, don't we? I thought the children's play was definitely shorter that her baking a pie, because it happened during the process of it.  <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/8.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/8.gif' alt='Emotion: indifferent'/>

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Hi,

In both sentences, clauses "the children played..." and " someone called" express only the acts; there were no contexts as to how long the playing carried on, nor the number of times the calling was repeated. That's how I interpreted the similarity.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousI do agree that the beginning of the actions is not stated, but why does the same hold true for the ending? We use the past simple for finished actions, don't we?

We also use the past for on-going activities. The word while forces this interpretation when a non-punctual verb like play is used, so no ending is implied.
________

Here both fiddled and burned express on-going activity in the past. fiddle and burn are non-punctual verbs connected by while. There is nothing in the sentence that says Nero finished fiddling, nor that Rome finished burning, even though we know, of course, from our own knowledge of the world, that both actions eventually came to an end. But that knowledge comes from outside the sentence. The sentence itself doesn't make these claims.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

AnonymousI thought the children's play was definitely shorter that her baking a pie, because it happened during the process of it.

The action in the whle-clause is the background action against which an accompanying action unfolds, but that just means that the main clause can (but doesn't have to) contain a punctual event which does have a definite beginning and ending. But you need a punctual situation for that, like the phone rang.

While I was reading the morning newspaper, the phone rang.

The background is reading - non-punctual - and the foreground is rang - punctual - so in this case there is a mix of non-punctual and punctual.

But when both situations are non-punctual, you don't know for certain which one started first and which one ended first; you only know that the speaker considers one action a background action and the other a foreground action - and he may be considering it that way because the background action lasted longer. Or he may be considering it that way for entirely different reasons. Nothing in the sentence tells us with any certainty what reason he has to think of the one action as background and the other as foreground.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you for the replies. But now I'm confused even more than before

If the second action 'played' doesn't show any limits - no beginning, no ending - what is the principal difference between this sentence and the one below?

While mother was baking a pie, the children were playing in the garden.

?

Dimsumexpress · Answer

While you are waiting for CJ's explanation, Consider the following:

The children were playing in the garden while mother was baking a pie.

Or, While the children were playing in the garden, mother was in the kitchen baking a pie.

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymouswhat is the principal difference between this sentence and the one below?
While mother was baking a pie, the children were playing in the garden.

None. No difference. The fact that this is a construction with "while" more or less neutralizes the difference between simple and continuous that might be seen in other contexts.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

<img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/> Thank you so much for your explanations!

While she...her children played in the garden

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions