'which' or 'that'

Question

'The only game which I play are pingpong.' or 'The only game that I play are pingpong.'

Victorycountry · Accepted Answer

I think you can use both.
By the way, don't you have use "is" instead of "are"?
or is it correct grammatically with "are"?
I think it's different from "I were/was".

Paco2004 · Answer

Hello

I'm afraid it would be a prescriptive rule but I was taught in school as follows:

Choose "that" rather than "which"
in the case the antecedent is modified by
"all", "every", "any", "no", "the only", "the same", "the very"
or any adjective in superlative form (the ....est or the most .....).

So if you have to choose only one, what I'd like to recommend is;
'The only game that I play is pingpong.'

paco

Floral · Answer

so sorry!
It's 'is' instead of 'are'.A WRONG TYPING.

Miche · Answer

What I've been told is that "that" is the form preferred by purists to introduce restrictive relative clauses (which is the case here). Not that "which" is wrong but some examiners could make a point of it.

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Miche,

ESL students should not have to put up with examiners or teachers who pr

CalifJim · Answer

Miche, I have heard the same thing.  I believe you are absolutely right on this point.  CJ

Just the truth · Answer

What I've been told is that "that" is the form preferred by purists to introduce restrictive relative clauses (which is the case here). Not that "which" is wrong but some examiners could make a point of it.

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Miche,

ESL students should not have to put up with examiners or teachers who propagate falsehoods about language. If an examiner were to do such a thing, ask for, better yet, demand proof.

No knowledgeable language source supports this old canard, nor is there support for it to be found in the English language. This is just one more old prescription.

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http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/t.html

That versus Which.
According to the more quibbling self-styled grammar experts, that is restrictive, while which is not.
Many grammarians insist on a distinction without any historical justification. Many of the best writers in the language couldn't tell you the difference between them, while many of the worst [purists] think they know. If the subtle difference between the two confuses you, use whatever sounds right.

{the addition in brackets is mine, not Prof Lynch's}

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Great advice but following this, above, Professor Lynch gets his reasoning wrong. It isn't that there aren't such things as restrictives and nonrestrictives. Both that & which can be used for the former but when something becomes a nonrestrictive, then only can be used.

Same idea for ; both are possible as restrictives but only can be used as a nonrestrictive.

CalifJim · Answer

demand proof

Can you suggest what form such a proof would take?

Just the truth · Answer

CJ: Can you suggest what form such a proof would take?

JTT: I think "any" would be a good start, Jim.

CalifJim · Answer

"any"???

But what would any proof be like? Quotations from grammar books, from journal articles, from forums like this one?

Statistical studies of some corpus of works?

And then there is always the question: proof of what? Proof that, for example, "purists prefer 'that' to introduce restrictive relative clauses"? No, I don't think you meant that. Proof that "which" is just as acceptable as "that" to introduce restrictive relative clauses? Whose criteria of acceptability do we use in that case? Or simply proof that "which" is used just as much as "that" to introduce restrictive relative clauses? In this case, on the basis of which corpus? And then, even if we could prove that "which" and "that" are equally used, how does that relate to a proof of "correctness"? Or is there no such thing as correctness in language? And if so, is any random collection of words to be considered a correct sentence?

I realize at this point the discussion is no longer about English nor about grammar, but about the nature of proof.

Jim

Just the truth · Answer

"any"???

JTT: Precisely, Jim, any.

Let's not get all philosophical here. Go to those grammar books where this 'rule' is espoused and seek out the proof therein. I think you probably already have and its sparsity has led you on this tack.

CJ: But what would any proof be like? Quotations from grammar books, from journal articles, from forums like this one? Statistical studies of some corpus of works?

JTT: Yes, knowlegeable grammar books, journal articles and even forums where a bit more than, "standard English says so" OR "purists prefer ..." is offered as a defence. That's what I meant by "any" would be a great start.

Statistical studies of English corpuses are a great place to look. When scientists study gorillas, do they formulate prescriptions and ask the gorillas to conform to their contrived "rules"? I wish I could say this is a rhetorical question but too many people follow this line of thinking as regards language.

CJ: And then there is always the question: proof of what? Proof that, for example, "purists prefer 'that' to introduce restrictive relative clauses"? No, I don't think you meant that. Proof that "which" is just as acceptable as "that" to introduce restrictive relative clauses? Whose criteria of acceptability do we use in that case? Or simply proof that "which" is used just as much as "that" to introduce restrictive relative clauses? In this case, on the basis of which corpus? And then, even if we could prove that "which" and "that" are equally used, how does that relate to a proof of "correctness"? Or is there no such thing as correctness in language? And if so, is any random collection of words to be considered a correct sentence?

JTT: Most of your questions, above, are answered by a number of knowledgeable language sources. If you want the skinny on this go to one of those sources. If you want to continue to believe, in complete defiance of reality, that there is something to this sorry convention, then
by all means, be my guest.

'which' or 'that'

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