Which one is correct?

Question

Except the fact or except FOR the fact?

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

Can you provide a few complete sentences. for us to comment on., please?

Clive

Quaerereverum · Answer

Except the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen , Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

Clive · Answer

Hi,
Except the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen , Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

The first part of the above, up to the comma, is hard for me to understand
One reason is that I am not familiar enough with French politics.
Another reason is that the combination of a statement of fact along with a conditional statement confuses me.

But the grammar calls for 'except for'.

Let me offer a simpler example.
Except for his wooden leg, Tom would win the Olympic 100 metres.
'Except for' here indicates that the wooden leg is the only reason.he can't win.

Clive

Mister Micawber · Answer

EXCEPT (FOR)

Here are four comments I gathered some years ago. Perhaps some of them will help.

When except is followed by a verb, we usually use the infinitive without “to”:
You can’t do anything except hope and pray.
He’ll do anything except work.

Except is also used with... that…
In general she was happy, except that she couldn’t spend enough time reading.

When except is followed by a thing or a person, it is usually followed by “for”:
They enjoyed the whole recital except for the last song.
The party was great, except for the shortage of ice.

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An abstract of a journal article on the 'problem' concludes: " 'except' and 'except for' can be used to mean 'with the exception of', but when it is used to mean 'if it were not for' only 'except for' can be used. Also, it is not advisable to begin a sentence with 'except' unless it is followed by 'for.' "

Several dictionaries treat the phrase as an idiom: except for: Were it not for: I would join you except for my cold.

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There is no major difference between 'except' and 'except for'. You use the word 'except' when you want to exclude any person/item that your main statement does not apply to: I love all my family except my young brother. He is always rude to the boy friends who come to visit me!'

'Except for' has much the same meaning. It excludes circumstances which may prevent your main statement from being true: The disco was completely empty except for a few couples who were trying, unsuccessfully, to dance to the DJ's choice of tapes.

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Here is a general distinction: both have the same meaning ('leaving out, not including') but they are different grammatically. Except is a conjunction sometimes and a preposition sometimes. Except for is a preposition only.

( 1) He can do everything except cook.
( 2) I know nothing about the controversy except what I read in one newspaper story.

In sentences ( 1) and ( 2) we cannot use except for. In sentence ( 1) the conjunction except is followed by a verb phrase. In sentence ( 2) the conjunction except is followed by a clause. Because it is a preposition, except for is not possible in these two sentences. — NB (MM): I take odds with this explanation. The clause in ( 2) ('what I read...story') is a noun clause and can be the object of the phrasal preposition except for.

Quaerereverum · Answer

Thank you very much Mr. Micwaber for elaborate explanation

.

I really enjoyed reading it.

To Clive, you couldn't make heads or tails of my sentence because I used a wrong word. Only in the morning, I realized that I should use despite. So my sentence now makes a sense.
Despite the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen, Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

It's still not OK. Who does 'his' refer to, Sarkozy or Hollande?

Clive

Ivanhr · Answer

Despite the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande, if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen, Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

Clive, would you agree that semantically "his" can refer only to Sarcozy because if Sarcozy is behind Hollande and Hollande joins with Le Pen then Sarcozy can't possibly win the election.

Quaerereverum · Answer

Sarkozy. Many people were happy that he( Sarkozy) lost the first part of  the election. They say he ( Sarkozy) is a Jew as if his opponent Hollande is a Christian or will roll out a red carpet for Islamic fundamentalists.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Despite the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen, Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

I'm not familiar enough with French politics to get from the above the meaning you intend.

I'd understand it if you wrote it thus.
Despite the fact that Sarkozy is behind Hollande, if his party joins with ultra right wing led by Marine Le Pen then Sarkozy still has a chance to win the election.

Clive

Quaerereverum · Answer

Thank you. I've learned a lot from this thread.  <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

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