Which one is correct?

Question

Hi teachers.I found this sentence in a book?Who is in New York with him?Isn't it better to say, 'Who is with him in New York?'Are both correct?I have always follow this rule, 'Subject + Verb + Object + Place'Is it wrong?Thanks in advance

CSnyder · Accepted Answer

Both are correct.

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi CSnyder,

Thanks a lot for your reply. So I don't always have to follow the rule, right?

Thinking

CSnyder · Answer

You do not always have to follow that rule.

One thing you might take into account is how the placement of the different parts of the question can subtly change the meaning.

For example, let's compare

"Who is in New York with him?" to "Who is with him in New York?"

The first formulation emphasizes the fact that he (whoever he is) is in New York more than the identity of the people who are there with him.

The second formulation emphasizes the identity of the people with him more than it does their presence in New York.

Hopefully that's comprehensible. There must be a better way to phrase the distinction, but obviously I'm not having an easy time coming up with one.

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi CSnyder,

It's a great explanation.

I have understood it very well.

Thinking

CalifJim · Answer

Thinking SpainI have always follow this rule, 'Subject + Verb + Object + Place'
Is it wrong?

The rule is correct, but your sentence doesn't have an object, so there is no way to apply this rule!

You simply have two prepositional phrases, and a 'with' phrase is usually not too fussy about where you put it.

CJ

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi CalifJim,

CalifJimYou simply have two prepositional phrases

Thank you. So, the prepositional phrases are: 'in New York' and 'with him'.

CalifJimThe rule is correct, but your sentence doesn't have an object, so there is no way to apply this rule!

Uphs! I thought 'with him' was the object, because there is an object pronoun 'him'.

In this sentence, 'He is driving her to the beach'. there is a subject pronoun 'he' and an object pronoun 'her'. Is it because 'is driving' is an action verb, and in the sentence, 'Who is with him in New York'? there's 'be' a non-action verb?

So, because there is no object in the sentence the 'with' phrase can be before or after the 'in' phrase.

That is what I have understood. By the way I didn't know about the word 'fussy'. Now I do. Thank you very much.

Thinking

CalifJim · Answer

Thinking SpainI thought 'with him' was the object, because there is an object pronoun 'him'.

No. You have to distinguish between "object of a verb" and "object of a preposition" (with him). Your little rule applies to "object of a verb".

Thinking SpainSo, because there is no object in the sentence the 'with' phrase can be before or after the 'in' phrase.

This is basically correct. In English we don't like to put anything between the verb and its object. We don't "bang loudly the drum". We "bang the drum loudly"!

Thinking SpainI didn't know about the word 'fussy'. Now I do.

Good! You have to know that word! It's a good one.

CJ

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi CalifJim,

Thanks a lot for your explanation. I've learned with it!

So, basically the object of the preposition is the noun or pronoun that comes after the preposition and it will often have modifiers that add description.

Examples: She put the pens in the box. 'Box' is the object of the preposition.

After his exams Robert will go on vacations. 'Exams' is the object of the preposition.

So, it has nothing to do with 'action' or 'non-action verbs', does it?

CalifJim
Thinking SpainI didn't know about the word 'fussy'. Now I do.
Good! You have to know that word! It's a good one.

It certainly is. I can apply this one to a few people.

Thinking

CalifJim · Answer

Thinking Spainthe object of the preposition is the noun or pronoun that comes after the preposition

Exactly. Modifiers are optional, of course. in the house / in the big house

Thinking SpainExamples: She put the pens in the box. 'Box' is the object of the preposition.

After his exams Robert will go on vacations. 'Exams' is the object of the preposition.

Exactly. (on vacation - We don't pluralize that one in English.)

Thinking SpainSo, it has nothing to do with 'action' or 'non-action verbs', does it?

No. Linking verbs, which are 'non-action' verbs, like is, are, was, were, seems, seemed, ... can't have objects, but other 'non-action' verbs can: I know the answer.

action verb = dynamic verb = non-stative verb

non-action verb = stative verb

intransitive verb - doesn't have an object

transitive verb - has an object

You can have all four combinations: dynamic intransitive; dynamic transitive; stative intransitive; stative transitive.

Linking verbs belong in the 'stative intransitive' group.

Thinking SpainI can apply this one [ 'fussy' ] to a few people.

I know what you mean. Can't we all?

CJ

Tenacious Learner · Answer

Hi CalifJim,

Thank you very much for your long and detailed explanation.

It's clear and concrete.

I understand that some of my questions in the forum are not acceptable.

I say this because no one answers me and because I want to know where the mistake is. Would you tell me what it is please?

If I'm asking this is because there's something I should correct and I'm willing to do it. I really like this forum and I've learnt a lot in it.

Thinking

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