When/how to use if + (future) will?

Question

Could you please give me reference(s) explaining the use of future in if-clause (if+will)?

I asked it already in this http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future-2.html#post697309 but was banned there (without any warning or explanation and all my following posts or different accounts being deleted) getting inconclusive response. I also tried to ask in http://www.englishclub.com/esl-forums/viewtopic.php?f=199&t=65551&sid=880ba15b5f441bcab5576bb9db95d01d&p=396644#p396644 on another site which was locked without giving any relevant to my question answer

What is the problem in trying to understand this usage?

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

vgv8Could you please give me reference(s) explaining the use of future in if-clause (if+will)?
...
What is the problem in trying to understand this usage?I'm afraid I don't know what the problem is. The use of the future in an if-clause is fairly straightforward. There shouldn't really be a problem, especially since most of the time will is not used at all in if-clauses.

Maybe it's the occasional strange cases that get people confused. They spend so much time and energy analyzing a few oddities that they believe that there are no general principles at all for the majority of cases.
______________

Main rule. Do not use will in an if-clause.
If you fall, you will hurt yourself. (Not If you will fall.)

Almost every use of will in an if-clause falls under one of these three exceptions to the main rule.

1. You can use will if the if-clause is an indirect question. whether can substitute for if in these.

I don't know if the train will arrive on time.
You can never tell if she'll react with laughter or tears.
Jack isn't sure if he will accept the position he was offered.

2. You can use will

2a. when it means be willing, agree, or consent as in a double-will construction which expresses bargaining

or, in general, when it expresses some kind of reciprocal relationship.

If you'll buy the pizza, I'll buy the beer. (If you consent to buy ...)

If you'll write the song, she'll sing it. (If you agree to write ...)

or even with will and another modal verb.

If they'll come here tomorrow, we can discuss it. (If they are willing to come ...)

2b. when it means succeed

I'll be there on time if the car will start. (if the car succeeds in starting)

We'll use the new computer if it will speed up our work. (if it succeeds in speeding ...)
Tom will hold this part steady for you if it will do any good. (if it succeeds in doing ...)

2c. when it means insist
If you will constantly interrupt me, I am not even going to try to explain it to you anymore.

(If you insist on interrupting ...)
This usage is not often seen. It may be used to express frustration at someone else's behavior.

3. You will occasionally see a will that appears to be in an if-clause, but it's actually in a clause that is subordinate to the main verb of the clause. This is all right.
If you think he will be late, we can rearrange the schedule.
If it looks like Karen will be busy that day, let's have the lunch some other time.
If it has been confirmed that Paul will do the accounting, we can let Gary go home early.

Sometimes the "think" or "looks like" clause is left out, and these are more difficult to analyze:
If they'll be conducting the survey at 12, we won't be able to see them until 2.
(If it looks like they'll be ... / If the arrangements are that they'll ...)

Please post any examples you are having trouble with.

See

See

See

See

See

CJ

Ivanhr · Answer

In addition to what CJ has said, I'll just add that it's also possible to use "will" in an if-clause when the event/action in the if-clause takes place after that in the main clause (which is rarely the case but is certainly possible).

For example

If that book will help you with your English then I'll go to the book store right now.

CalifJim · Answer

IvanhrIf that book will help you with your English then I'll go to the book store right now.

Your comments are correct. Thanks for adding that information.

I just wanted to add that I would put this under the category of "will" that means "succeed". Maybe that category should be renamed.

CJ

Vgv8 · Answer

Many thanks to all,

I really appreciate your time because I was quite confused http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future-4.html#post698446 - whether it is

non-standard English?
Australian English only?
slang?
something which usage should be avoided (at least, in order to escape being banned when asking about it). Does it (will in if-clause) hurt the feelings of native English speaking people?

CalifJimThanks for adding that information.I just wanted to add that I would put this under the category of "will" that means "succeed". Maybe that category should be renamed. CJ

Renamed how?
Put what - this thread?

Vgv8 · Answer

CalifJimPlease post any examples you are having trouble with

English is not my native language. And I need only technical writing in English.

Ashttp://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future.html#post697213 and the same was http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future-4.html#post698203
(note that the latter appeared after this my question and I was in doubt especially after the ban having posted in that thread) I simply will not write something that local non-native and even native linguists consider non-standard or bad or even are not aware of.

I personally was glad to know:"Main rule. Do not use will in an if-clause."

If I proofread English content written by another, I shall now avoid me trouble into considering and disputing it as bad English (and probably re-write it without double-future tenses usage)

CalifJim · Answer

vgv8I really appreciate your time because I was quite confused by original discussion I mentioned - whether it is
* non-standard English?

So you want to know if the original discussion was in standard English? That's what you're asking, but I think you asked that by mistake.

Uou probably want to know if the topic of the original discussion (will in an if-clause) is standard English. Yes, it is.

[ Is "will" in an "if"-clause: ]

# non-standard English? No.
# Australian English only? No.
# slang? No.
# something which usage should be avoided Not if it fits into one of the patterns in the list I gave you. In other cases, yes.
(at least, in order to escape being banned when asking about it). This is an irrelevant consideration where grammar is concerned.
Does it (will in if-clause) hurt the feelings of native English speaking people? No.

vgv8Renamed how?

I don't know. What name do you prefer? Or maybe you are satisfied with the name "when will means succeed".

vgv8Put what - this thread?

Put the example sentence Ivanhr posted into category 2b in my list.

CJ

Vgv8 · Answer

Oops, editing (changes) to my previous post were submitted as a dupe.

CalifJimPlease post any examples you are having trouble with

English is not my native language. And I need only technical writing in English.

Ashttp://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future.html#post697213 and the same was http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137942-if-future-4.html#post698203

(note that the latter appeared after this my question and I was in doubt especially after the ban having posted in that thread)
I simply will not bear risks to write something that non-native and even native linguists might consider non-standard or bad or even are not aware of.

I personally was glad to know:"Main rule. Do not use will in an if-clause."

If I proofread English content written by another (what I am currently doing), I shall now avoid getting me into trouble to consider and dispute such usage as a bad English. I shall simplify re-writing spurious (causing troubles) parts without double-future tenses usage

When/how to use if + (future) will?

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