When&Once

Question

Two years ago China joined the World Trade Organization and tariffs began to drop and the country began to grow richer. (23) ---- Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games, the people of the world (24) ---- a city and a country that has been transformed. China is now (25) ---- the largest economies in the world and it is becoming a (26) ----

trading partner (27) ---- the US.

23.

A) Until B) When C) Unless D) As if E) Once

24.

A) would find B) has found C) will find D) is finding E) finds

According to the key, B is the answer in question 23. But isn't "ONCE" equally correct?

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Maybe the people of the world won't be so quick to find a city and a country that has been transformed.
"once" suggests a more immediate result. "when" suggests a less immediate result.
"once" suggests a sequence of events more strongly than "when", which can also suggest simultaneity, though not as strongly as "while".
"once" also suggests that no more is required, that "all Beijing has to do is host the Games, and presto, the people of the world will find a city and a country that has been transformed".

That said, I think "once" is equally correct.

CJ

Diamondrg · Answer

---- Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games, the people of the world will find a city and a country that has been transformed.

A) When

B) Once

1- If you use "When", does the sentence mean that China wouldn't be transformed and that nothing would be done to transform her if she didn't host the 2008 Olympic Games? And if it so, is it the way things happen actually in the real world as far as Olympic Games are concerned?

2- Is what is true of "When" in 1 is true of "Once", too?

3- Does "once" imply that the change would be sudden and unexpectedly while when implying that a normal change?

4- Can there be a substantial reason for choosing one and not the other? (that is, when or once) If yes, what is that?

Ikia · Answer

First, the sentence doesn’t say that the Games will transform the city; the sentence says that, when the Games are held in China, people will (have an opportunity to) see a transformed city. The Games will not transform China. The Games will provide an opportunity to see the transformation which already exists.

Look at this sentence: Once he realizes his strengths, he can begin to make good use of them. We’re not sure just when, or if, he will realize them.

Once China holds the games, people will see a transformed city. You’re correct in your analysis that one appears to be reliant on the other. Further, the time when is not clear till you insert the 2008.

I prefer the use of WHEN because you already KNOW the time—it’s 2008. You’re referring to a time WHEN something will take place. When this happens in 2008, people will have the opportunity . . . . When appears to be more definite about something taking place, I think..

The differences are very subtle

Ikia

Diamondrg · Answer

May I ask whether you are a native or not?

-First of all, I didn't say that Games will transform China. I used "they". I think it refers to the authorities or the people who will accomplish it.

-I must say that just saying that //"when" is the answer because you already KNOW the time—it’s 2008. You’re referring to a time WHEN something will take place. When this happens in 2008, people will have the opportunity . . . . When appears to be more definite about something taking place, I think.. // is not enough.

- tell me why "once" is wrong then.

MrPedantic · Answer

Interesting. It may only be a BrE preference; but I find the present perfect more natural with "once", in this context: "Once Beijing has hosted...", etc.

MrP

MrPedantic · Answer

But then, I also find "unless" possible.

MrP

Diamondrg · Answer

but, MrP, then would that sentence be compatible with the rest of the paragraph as far as the meaning is concerned?

anyway.

I don't think I managed to get a satisfactory answer to my question.

I think the discussion swerved from the main point. I really want an answer to the point if possible.

Some people in Turkey, especially those who took this test, really want to know why "once" is considered to be wrong by the exam board. Is there a logical explanation? These questions may help elicit an answer from you..

1- Once Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games, the people of the world will find a city and a country that has been transformed.

anything wrong with this sentence?

2- When Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games, the people of the world will find a city and a country that has been transformed.

anything wrong with this sentence?

(Being asked in a standard test, when and once must have a clear distinction. if they don't have, this question is wrong. that is they shouldn't have given once as an alternative.) To the point answers please.

Yulysess · Answer

Hi everybody,

It's nice to see refreshing an old discussion once again.

www.EnglishForward.com/English/OnceInterchangable/bgbvz/Post.htm#114059

Ikia · Answer

First of all, I didn't say that Games will transform China. I used "they". I think it refers to the authorities or the people who will accomplish it.

This is what you said:

"If you use "When", does the sentence mean that China wouldn't be transformed and that nothing would be done to transform her if she didn't host the 2008 Olympic Games? And if it so, is it the way things happen actually in the real world as far as Olympic Games are concerned?"

I wasn't aware that this question had already been addressed. I've read the earlier posts now. Paco and I seem to have said the same thing, except he said it much better:

"I feel this question is tricky. To me it looks like a question of logic, not of grammar. "Once..." is an adverbial clause indicating an unspecific time when some event happens. So, when a speaker say "once ...", he/she does not know exactly when the event happens.
"Once you've done your homework (I don't know when it is exactly), we'll discuss your pocket money".

"But in the case of Beijing Olympiade, it is well known that the Olympiade is held in the August of 2008. So "When Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games" is rephrased as "During the time in which Beijing hosts the Olympic Games". It cannot be rephrased as "If/Once Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games"."

Ikia

Diamondrg · Answer

Ikia"I feel this question is tricky. To me it looks like a question of logic, not of grammar. "Once..." is an adverbial clause indicating an unspecific time when some event happens. So, when a speaker say "once ...", he/she does not know exactly when the event happens.
"Once you've done your homework (I don't know when it is exactly), we'll discuss your pocket money".

"But in the case of Beijing Olympiade, it is well known that the Olympiade is held in the August of 2008. So "When Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games" is rephrased as "During the time in which Beijing hosts the Olympic Games". It cannot be rephrased as "If/Once Beijing hosts the 2008 Olympic Games"."

Ikia

To begin with, let me ask you whether you are a native or not?

What you wrote makes sense if the proposition in bold is correct. But If it isn't certain whether Beijing will host the 2008 Olympic Games, can if and once be used?

When&Once

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