When & will?

Question

Which one is correct?i'll write you when you get therei'll write you when you'll get therei think the 1st is correct but an Australian friend of mine used the 2nd version. Elly.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Capitalize the first word of every sentence, and always capitalize I.
I'll write you when you get there is the only correct one.
CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim Capitalize the first word of every sentence, and always capitalize I.

Yeah I know .It's just that I don't give importance to these when i write on the internet.
I almost go slang .. .lol.

anyway thanx.

CalifJim · Answer

I see.  Well, we tend to insist on these things because this is an English forum, and we don't want to give the beginners the wrong impression.  <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Anonymous · Answer

Yes. You're right. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/78.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/78.gif' alt='Emotion: nodding'/>

Kooyeen · Answer

This is interesting, because... someone on the net is saying that "will" used that way is ok.
He claims the following examples come from an American English Corpus:

1. However, the device's assembly requires both strength and dexterity. Some of the connectors require a small amount of pressure before they will be seated properly.

2. We have only three more doors to either side before we will be forced to confront guards. Is Captain Picard on this side?

3. It will take days, I think, before we will be satisfied with the identification.

4. Do you think it will take two weeks before you will be ready?

And he also says "will" is used in when-clauses like the ones in this thread. Now, is it really used that way in the UK? Or in some dialects? I have never heard of it in American English, and I have always been told it would sound like a non-native mistake (one a French learner would make, for example)... Well, that "he" I mentioned happens to be MrP's old chap trolling around in another forum. Not that I believe or read anything he says, but this question reminded me of this issue.

CalifJim · Answer

He's going to turn off all the lights before he leaves. (Never will leave.) [purely temporal]
We're going to have to turn off all the lights before he'll leave. [requirement to be fulfilled before a given result can/will come about.]
___

There is a shade of "requirement before result" in all the examples you cite. It is almost a conditional formula.

If you use this amount of pressure [requirement], the connectors will be seated properly. [result]
___

"taking time" is featured in 3 and 4. Obviously, this is a requirement in terms of time.
It will take/require X [days / weeks / etc.] before ... will ... [Present OK here, too. Personally, I prefer the present in these.]
The desired result is being satisfied or being ready, depending which sentence you're looking at.
___

Sentence 2 is a little different because the result is an undesired result.
If we proceed the distance of three more doors, we will be forced to confront guards.
___

In all cases, the underlying logic is one of "tipping the balance". A certain amount of energy is increasingly expended, or time spent, or distance traversed, and a point is eventually reached when the result comes about. The general formula is something like this:

[It takes/requires / You have to expend] "this" much [energy, time, distance, ...] before "that" will occur.
It takes this much pressure before the connector will seat.
It takes this much distance before guards will confront us.
It takes this much time before we will be [satisfied / ready / happy / ...]
CJ

CalifJim · Answer

KooyeenAnd he also says "will" is used in when-clauses like the ones in this thread.

Do you have any examples? I'm having a little trouble imagining what sorts of sentences he's talking about.
CJ

Anonymous · Answer

The examples above are a bit strange actually.
I don't hear much about these forms.
Plus, if you talk about the American English, you can expect anything.
This kind of English is so slang, and confused(though i LOVE it) and most of the times it's not pure.
It's kind of a "liberal" an "lazy" English so it's obvious to get surprised to these ways of using some words.

Other than that, there are some grammatical rules which aren't used in a daily speaking.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Elly.

Yankee · Answer

ElidaCorrect me if I'm wrong.

OK. You're wrong, Elly.

ElidaThe examples above are a bit strange actually.

I would say they seem "strange" to you simply because the usage is new to you. The fact that a usage is new to you does not automatically mean it is grammatically incorrect.

You'd benefit if you tried to understand what Jim has written here. The fact that you "don't hear much about these forms" is an indication that you still have a lot to learn about English -- any kind of English. Jim's posts here have had nothing to do with slang. The usage he wrote about here is neither "liberal" nor "lazy" English. What in the world does "not pure" mean? To be perfectly honest, you seem to equate the word "pure" with beginner level grammar -- i.e. overly simplified grammar rules.

Elidai'll write you when you'll get there

As regards the second sentence in your first post (supposedly uttered by an Australian), it is not a sentence I would normally expect to hear any native speaker use. However, it is also not correct to simply say that "will" can never follow "when". I don't speak Australian English, and I don't know the broader context of the sentence you quoted. In fact, I don't know whether the sentence was even correctly quoted. However, I'd say the grammatical "correctness" of it could possibly depend on the broader context. The use of will (you'll) could be grammatically justified this way, for example:

You are planning to visit someone and that person is taking care of arranging some things for you locally. After the person has finished making the arrangements, he is going to send you an e-mail with the details. Perhaps an important detail is this: probable time of arrival. "I'll write you when you'll get there" could have been used to mean this:

- I will write you an e-mail that will provide you with an answer to the following question: "When will I get there?"

ElidaIt's kind of a "liberal" and "lazy" English, so ~~it's obvious to get surprised to these ways of using some words~~ obviously you can be surprised by some of the ways words are used.

ElidaOther than that, there are some grammatical rules which aren't used in a daily speaking.

The use of the indefinite article ("a") is grammatically incorrect. The statement is also incorrect. You might say, however, that formal grammar rules are sometimes ignored in informal English.

Anonymous · Answer

YankeeI would say they seem "strange" to you simply because the usage is new to you. The fact that a usage is new to you does not automatically mean it is grammatically incorrect.

No. I didn't say it's incorrect. I said they seem strange.
So yeah ... "strange" and "incorrect" are different.

YankeeWhat in the world does "not pure" mean?

I didn't know what word to use instead..but I've heard some people use it and I used it too(though it's not correct).
in this case, "pure" meant "real English", "correct grammatical rules"

anyway thx.

Elly.

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