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Timespace Traveller Posted 20 years ago
Grammar
when
which ones are acceptable?
When Colin ---- home by midnight, I ---- the walls.
A) didn't arrive / climbed
B) didn't arrive / was climbing
C) didn't arrive / had climbed
D) hadn't arrived / was climbing
E) hadn't arrived / climbed
F) hadn't arrived / had climbed
When Colin ---- home by midnight, I ---- the walls.
A) didn't arrive / climbed
B) didn't arrive / was climbing
C) didn't arrive / had climbed
D) hadn't arrived / was climbing
E) hadn't arrived / climbed
F) hadn't arrived / had climbed
Top answer
To my ears, B is the most natural. I think because "is climbing the walls" or "was climbing the walls" is more idiomatic. You don't actually climb the walls (unless you're a chimpanzee, I guess), so the idiom means that you are distraught with worry, and "climbing" just sounds better.
- To my ears, B is the most natural.
- I think because "is climbing the walls" or "was climbing the walls" is more idiomatic.
- You don't actually climb the walls (unless you're a chimpanzee, I guess), so the idiom means that you are distraught with worry, and "climbing" just sounds better.
- D would work if changed to this: By midnight, Colin still hadn't arrived home and I was climbing the walls.
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11 Answers
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To my ears, B is the most natural.
I think because "is climbing the walls" or "was climbing the walls" is more idiomatic. You don't actually climb the walls (unless you're a chimpanzee, I guess), so the idiom means that you are distraught with worry, and "climbing" just sounds better.
D would work if changed to this: By midnight, Colin still hadn't arrived home and I was climbin
I think because "is climbing the walls" or "was climbing the walls" is more idiomatic. You don't actually climb the walls (unless you're a chimpanzee, I guess), so the idiom means that you are distraught with worry, and "climbing" just sounds better.
D would work if changed to this: By midnight, Colin still hadn't arrived home and I was climbin
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Grammar Geek
To my ears, B is the most natural.
I think because "is climbing the walls" or "was climbing the walls" is more idiomatic. You don't actually climb the walls (unless you're a chimpanzee, I guess), so the idiom means that you are distraught with worry, and "climbing" just sounds better.
D would work if changed to this: By midnight, Colin
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GG is right about the continuous form as being preferred for "climb the walls" here.
Had the verb been different, the simple past might have been in order:
When Colin didn't arrive home by midnight, I called the police.
Had the verb been different, the simple past might have been in order:
When Colin didn't arrive home by midnight, I called the police.
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Oh, thanks MH. I was so caught up in the idiom of "climbing the walls" that I didn't consider other forms had other verbs been used.
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but D is the sentence used in Longman. 1995 edition under the head word "climb".
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Well, if you don't apply tense simplification in the subordinate, you can have the past perfect in it:
When Colin hadn't arrived home by midnight, I called the police.
For tense simplification, see Swan.
I think D works as originally presented, by it doesn't have tense simplification (past perfect->simple past, in the subordinate). Perhaps this
When Colin hadn't arrived home by midnight, I called the police.
For tense simplification, see Swan.
I think D works as originally presented, by it doesn't have tense simplification (past perfect->simple past, in the subordinate). Perhaps this
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As I read it over and over, I guess D is okay, but I don't like it.
If something "hadn't happend" by midnight, by that phrasing, that's when I would expect that next something (the climbing of the walls) to start. It's like the midnight was a trigger. Arrive before midnight, all is well; arrive after and I'm upset. Somehow the phrasing doesn't work for me that I would already be c
If something "hadn't happend" by midnight, by that phrasing, that's when I would expect that next something (the climbing of the walls) to start. It's like the midnight was a trigger. Arrive before midnight, all is well; arrive after and I'm upset. Somehow the phrasing doesn't work for me that I would already be c
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All sound ok to me except C and F.
(But sometimes my ears play up, at this time of night.)
MrP
(But sometimes my ears play up, at this time of night.)
MrP
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«As I read it over and over, I guess D is okay, but I don't like it»
What if to replace "when" by "after" in #D:
«After Colin hadn't arrived home by midnight, I was climbing [or began to climb] the walls.»
Is still unnatural now?
What if to replace "when" by "after" in #D:
«After Colin hadn't arrived home by midnight, I was climbing [or began to climb] the walls.»
Is still unnatural now?
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MrPedanticI like your sense of humour.
All sound ok to me except C and F.
(But sometimes my ears play up, at this time of night.)
MrP
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