What tense is this?

Question

While boning up on my Latin phrases recently, I noticed the abbreviation "Q.E.D." (quod erat demonstrandum), is literally translated into English as "which was to be demonstrated".
So (assuming the verb/verb phrase in "which was to be demonstrated" is "was to be" or "was to be demonstrated" which is it?), what tense is the verb/verb phrase in?
(My guess was "Future Perfect", but I am not sure. Am I right?)

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]While boning up on my Latin phrases recently, I noticed the abbreviation "Q.E.D." (quod erat demonstrandum), is literally translated into ... what tense is the verb/verb phrase in? (My guess was "Future Perfect", but I am not sure. Am I right?)[/nq]
Nope. "Quod erat" just means "which was"; the tense is imperfect. The whole of "(the thing) to be demonstrated" is in "demonstrandum" which is a form of verbal noun (I can't remember what it's called) which English doesn't have. Another example is the girl's name "Amanda", which is "the thing (feminine) to be loved", and covers the territory of "fit to be loved" and, with a bit of a stretch (because it's a noun, not an adjective) "lovable".

Don Aitken
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:2](My guess was "Future Perfect", but I am not sure. Am I right?)[/nq]
[nq:1]Nope. "Quod erat" just means "which was"; the tense is imperfect. The whole of "(the thing) to be demonstrated" is in "demonstrandum" which is a form of verbal noun (I can't remember what it's called) which English doesn't have.[/nq]
It's called the "gerundive" or "future passive participle". So you have something like a future passive in the indefinite past, to the extent that that makes any sense.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]While boning up on my Latin phrases recently, I noticed ... "Future Perfect", but I am not sure. Am I right?)[/nq]
[nq:1]Nope. "Quod erat" just means "which was"; the tense is imperfect. The whole of "(the thing) to be demonstrated" is in "demonstrandum" which is a form of verbal noun (I can't remember what it's called) which English doesn't have.[/nq]
The gerundive (which is what "demonstrandum" is here) is a verbal adjective. The gerund (which looks similar) is a verbal noun.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]While boning up on my Latin phrases recently, I noticed ... "Future Perfect", but I am not sure. Am I right?)[/nq]
[nq:1]Nope. "Quod erat" just means "which was"; the tense is imperfect. The whole of "(the thing) to be demonstrated" is in "demonstrandum" which is a form of verbal noun (I can't remember what it's called) which English doesn't have.[/nq]
The gerundive plus the personal forms of the verb ESSE are usually called "passive periphrastic forms". The English translation as " ... was to be ..." gives a wrong feeling that it is some kind of future, but the Latin forms denote a passive obligation, so a more literal translation can be "what had to be demonstrated". A clearer example of the meaning of this construction is the famous sentence "Carthago delenda est" (Carthago must be destroyed), with which Cato ended all his speeches in the Roman Senate.
[nq:1]Another example is the girl's name "Amanda", which is "the thing (feminine) to be loved"[/nq]
Rather, "the woman (or any female human or animal) who must be loved".
[nq:1], and covers the territory of "fit to be loved" and, with a bit of a stretch (because it's a noun, not an adjective) "lovable".[/nq]
Adjectives are usually substantivized*; in Latin, as they had no articles, it is sometimes harder to tell than in languages with articles; "Amanda" can be translated as "the lovable one (feminine)". A similar case is "Miranda", from "miror" (admire), that can be translated as "the admirable one (feminine)", "the woman who must be admired". There is also "memorandum" (thing that must be remembered) and "propaganda" (things that must be spread).
ObAUE: when an adjective functions as a noun, is "substantivization" used in English?

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Mood conjugation:
I am an artist
You are a Bohemian
He forgot to shave this morning
(Craig Brown)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Nope. "Quod erat" just means "which was"; the tense is ... (I can't remember what it's called) which English doesn't have.[/nq]
[nq:1]It's called the "gerundive" or "future passive participle".[/nq]
The name is "gerundive", and some times, in late Latin, gerundive is used as a future passive participle, but originally they did not have any future meaning, rather, they were used as "action adjectives" (the gerund was used as "action noun"); its meaning was related to obligation, possibility and finality; since finality is related to future, some grammars call gerundive "future passive participle", but this is not its only meaning, though it became the most common in late Latin. Gerundive + ESSE is used in the "passive periphrastic".
[nq:1]So you have something like a future passive in the indefinite past, to the extent that that makes any sense.[/nq]
Simply, passive obligation in the past: "what had to be demonstrated".

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Mood conjugation:
I am an artist
You are a Bohemian
He forgot to shave this morning
(Craig Brown)

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