What is a suburb?

Question

Actually my question is a little more than that. I'm not sure if these are the correct 2 groups to ask but they were the closest in my search. Anyway on to the question.
What is the difference between a Subdivision, Suburb and a satellite city?
I can offer my own definition to see if anyone agrees.

A subdivision is basically a neighborhood that lies outside a city. It may be a planned community or such. It usually has no sense of being a separate town.
A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's pretty close to a major city but unlike the subdivision the suburb has a sense of being a separate town. It is a separate town but usually the lines blur between it and its central city.
A satellite is similar to a suburb but it is far enough away that it has more of self-sufficiency about it. In other words people don't have to go to the "big city" except occasionally for entertainment or rare nights out. It is usually a small town that is under the close influence of the major city.
So are these definitions close? Opinions welcomed.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Actually my question is a little more than that. I'm not sure if these are the correct 2 groups to ask but they were the closest in my search. ...[/nq]
I've directed followups to alt.usage.english, which seems to me the only one of the two that's appropriate.
[nq:1]A subdivision is basically a neighborhood that lies outside a city. It may be a planned community or such. It usually has no sense of being a separate town.[/nq]
A subdivision is an area of land first built up with urban or suburban buildings at a single time by a single developer. The term comes from the act of subdividing the large lots of rural land into the smaller lots of urban or suburban land, which happens then. It doesn't have to be outside a city some cities expand to include include land that's still rural, and this can be subdivided later. The term is usually restricted to residential areas, with other terms such as "industrial park" used otherwise. A (residential) subdivision may or may not come to be viewed as a neighborhood.
[nq:1]A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's pretty close to a major city but unlike the subdivision ... being a separate town. It is a separate town but usually the lines blur between it and its central city.[/nq]
I would say it has a sense of being a distinct community or neighborhood, rather than a "separate town". A suburb doesn't necessarily stop being a suburb if the central city amalgamates with it, but if the city continues growing, its suburban identity probably will fade over time. (And for some issues, such as municipally provided services, it is more convenient to strictly distinguish city from suburbs.)
[nq:1]A satellite is similar to a suburb but it is far enough away that it has more of self-sufficiency about it. ... It is usually a small town that is under the close influence of the major city.[/nq]
Fair enough. The term "exurb" is also used, which I would say is about the same.

Mark Brader, Toronto > "*I* never have problems distinguishing (Email Removed) > Peter Seebach and Steve Summit!" Steve Summit

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Actually my question is a little more than that. I'm not sure if these are the correct 2 groups to ... a city. It may be a planned community or such. It usually has no sense of being a separate town.[/nq]
You didn't state which country you want your definition to be applicable in. In the US, a subdivision is usually an area that *is* inside the city. It is just a neighborhood that has been developed as a distinct section.
In other countries, a subdivision may have other definitions. Someone brought up that in - Australia, I think it was - a subdivision is usually outside of the city.
[nq:1]A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's pretty close to a major city but unlike the subdivision ... being a separate town. It is a separate town but usually the lines blur between it and its central city.[/nq]
Basically, this is correct. In the US, the suburb need not have the status of town or city. I live in a US suburb of a major city, but not in a town or city. The term for my area is an unincorporated part of the county, but it does have distinct boundaries and a name. The essential distinction of a suburb is that is a separately named and defined area that is adjacent to a larger, more well-known, city.
[nq:1]A satellite is similar to a suburb but it is far enough away that it has more of self-sufficiency about ... or rare nights out. It is usually a small town that is under the close influence of the major city.[/nq]
I don't see that term used in the US. If I would hear it, I would expect the satellite city to be a bedroom community near a major industrial area.
[nq:1]So are these definitions close? Opinions welcomed.[/nq]
When you ask a question in a group that is made of posters from many countries, define your question. Without that, you will get answers that are country-specific and may mislead you.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]. . .[/nq]
[nq:2]A subdivision is basically a neighborhood that lies outside a ... It usually has no sense of being a separate town.[/nq]
In Canada, subdivisions are neighbourhoods
built (more or less) at the same time, by one or
a few developers. Most are within cities or rural municipalities. Ottawa (pop. about 1 million)
includes literally dozens of subdivisions.
[nq:2]A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's ... usually the lines blur between it and its central city.[/nq]
The word was coined in England in the late 19th century and associated with the "Garden City" movement. Its meaning is thus conditioned by social class. In southeast London Deptford is an industrial/proletarian community (formerly a separate town) and nearby Blackheath is a suburb, because largely middle class.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]. . .[/nq]
[nq:1]In Canada, subdivisions are neighbourhoods built (more or less) at the same time, by one or a few developers. Most ... of subdivisions. The word was coined in England in the late 19th century and associated with the "Garden City" movement.[/nq]
I remembered it as being older, and some web surfing tells me it was first coined in the 1300s. But it was not commonly used until the 19th century, according to one etymology.
You'll find it used in the 1611 King James Version of the Bible, in (among other places) Leviticus 25:34 " ... the field of the suburbs of their cities ... "
see http://www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030812.htm

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]What is the difference between a Subdivision, Suburb and a satellite city?.[/nq]
A subdivison is not an administrative unit, like
a town or village is. A subdivision is a block of
land that has been developed for residential
use by property developers. It may be in a
city or suburb, or it may be in an unincorporated
area that has not yet come under the administration of a nearby town. But generally there will be some established community services nearby, or it wouldn't make sense to build houses there.
[nq:1]A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's pretty close to a major city[/nq]
A subdivision is just a bunch of houses and streets developed at the same time.
[nq:1]but unlike the subdivision the suburb has a sense of being a separate town. It is a separate town but ... or rare nights out. It is usually a small town that is under the close influence of the major city.[/nq]
In the case of older suburbs, they often started
out as separate towns or villages that eventually
became swallowed up by a larger city.
In the case of newer suburbs, they are often
planned by local zoning boards as little more
than "bedroom" communities for people who
work in the city.
I don't know about "satellites", but I think it
usually refers to towns, villages, or smaller
cities that are too distant and/or too self-
sustaining to be considered suburbs.

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A suburb is similar to a subdivision as in it's ... usually the lines blur between it and its central city.[/nq]
[nq:1]I would say it has a sense of being a distinct community or neighborhood, rather than a "separate town". A ... the central city amalgamates with it, but if the city continues growing, its suburban identity probably will fade over time.[/nq]
I've always thought of "suburb" as only referring to separate towns. Perhaps the fact that I was brought up in Massachusetts, where the growth of cities is more or less circumscribed because there's no unincorporated territory, and city and town government is more important than, say, counties or anything like that, influences my definition. For instance, I wouldn't call, say, West Roxbury a suburb of Boston, even if it has a sort of suburban residential feel to it, since it's part of the city of Boston.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1](regarding the notion of "a suburb")[/nq]
[nq:2]I would say it has a sense of being a ... continues growing, its suburban identity probably will fade over time.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've always thought of "suburb" as only referring to separate towns. Perhaps the fact that I was brought up in ... even if it has a sort of suburban residential feel to it, since it's part of the city of Boston.[/nq]
I agree with Aaron. We're dealing again with the conflicting organic and legalistic notions of settlement or community. In my experience, when we say "X is a suburb of city Y", we are implying that X is not part of the legalistic definition of Y.
We know that these concepts are significantly different in the UK and, no doubt, Australia (Faithful Cultural Child of the UK In This As In All Things). I wonder about Canada, where Mark is at. I suspect also that the AmE usage I give above may be fairly recent, perhaps not much older than the middle third of the 20th century.
Is the usage I and Aaron describe not present throughout AmE? Is there anyone in AmE who would say "X is a suburb of city Y" even in those cases where X is a part of the legalistic definition of city Y?

The most I can comfortably say is "X is a suburbanlike area of city Y" for those other cases.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Actually my question is a little more than that. I'm not sure if these are the correct 2 groups to ... in my search. Anyway on to the question. What is the difference between a Subdivision, Suburb and a satellite city?[/nq]
You might like to search Google for alt.usage.english

We discussed this at great length a few months ago, and it appeared that the terms mean different things in different places.
In South Africa a "sub-division" refers to a single piece of land divided into smaller pieces that are then sold separately. It is the separate pieces that are called sub-divisions.
A suburb is a part of a big city that has its own name and a definite boundary. In other places these appear to ber called neighborhoods.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Usenet · Answer

(Posted to AUE only)
[nq:1]A suburb is a part of a big city that has its own name and a definite boundary. In other places these appear to ber called neighborhoods.[/nq]
Where I come from neighborhoods do not really have definite boundaries in an official sense, which leads to at least some indefinacy pressure in the non-official sense.
In Chicago, wherein I am temporarily residing (B!), the neighborhoods purport to have true official status, with boundaries and everything, but I gather that this is some post-Watergate marketing gimmick.

As for 'subdivision', that's something I sort of associate with the Sunbelt regions of the US. If people commonly speak of 'subdivisions' in the older, more densely and longer-populated regions, it's escaped my notice. The pattern of development by subdivision, or its equivalent, is itself centuries old.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]As for 'subdivision', that's something I sort of associate with the Sunbelt regions of the US. If people commonly speak ... and longer-populated regions, it's escaped my notice. The pattern of development by subdivision, or its equivalent, is itself centuries old.[/nq]
It absolutely amazes me that you and I can be in almost the same place, and I have these unique experiences that run completely counter to what you experience.
When I purchased my first house, in Buffalo Grove, Illinois (you could throw a slice of deep-dish pizza from Buffalo Grove and have it land in Chicago) I lived in a subdivision. At least, I called it that, and all my neighbors on Checker Road called it a subdivision. The developer - Levitt & Sons of Levittown fame - called it a subdivision.

Buffalo Grove is just north, and slightly west, of Chicago proper. I know you like to move geography around, but north and slightly west of Chicago is not in what anyone would call the Sunbelt.

It also seemed to me that subdivisions were popping up in other areas. Developers were buying tracts of open land in all of the northern suburbs and building blocks of houses on them. Even the older, established suburbs usually had enough open land to create an enclave of houses that would be known by subdivisional names like "Osprey Landings".
Being a North Shore guy, I know nothing about the western or southern suburbs of Chicago. They were closer to the Sunbelt, though, so they too may have supported subdivisions.

What is a suburb?

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