What does "to the extent that" mean ?

Question

I have seen in various places people using "to the extent that" as if it means "given that fact that" or "considering that". I tried to look up for this usage but could not find any reference on the internet. Could anyone give me some information? Thanks.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I have seen in various places people using "to the extent that" as if it means "given that fact that" ... up for this usage but could not find any reference on the internet. Could anyone give me some information? Thanks.[/nq]
I don't think it can mean "considering that". Are you foreign and just don't know what the phrase means, or are you just curious if it can ALSO mean "considering that"? Either way, its typical use is as "to the level that". For example, "I can't work out daily to the extent that you can without getting tired" or something like that. It's not the best example, but this is how the phrase is correctly used. The words are all taken literally.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I have seen in various places people using "to the extent that" as if it means "given that fact that" ... up for this usage but could not find any reference on the internet. Could anyone give me some information? Thanks.[/nq]
I would say the usage you've heard is probably more along the lines of either "though" or "despite". I think I could see "to the extent" equating with "considering" in the context of the speaker conceding a point while the overall tone of the sentence is critical or oppositional. I still don't think it's perfect usage, but the overlap in meaning with other words or phrases that would fit might be sufficient. For example:
"As far as I'm concerned, he's a good worker even though he shows up late sometimes."
You might be able to get away with reversing this to:

"Even to the extent that he shows up late, he's still a good worker."

I really think this would only be correct if the previous speaker had been talking about the worker arriving late. Can you give me an example of where you've seen this usage? I might be able to give you a more specific illustration.
Mike

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I have seen in various places people using "to the extent that" as if it means "given that fact that" ... up for this usage but could not find any reference on the internet. Could anyone give me some information? Thanks.[/nq]
That's an interesting question. I just looked through some examples of how "to the extent that" is used, to refresh my memory.

In quite a few of them, the phrase could be replaced by "if" without any change in meaning. You could start with that.
The basic meaning is probably, "To the same degree that X is true, Y is also true." This works out to mean all of this:
If X is true, Y is true.
If X isn't true at all, neither is Y.
If X is a little bit true, then so is Y..
If X is mostly true, the Y is mostly true.
The truth of each "extends" to the same amount.
Suppose someone says "To the extent that you like fruit, you'll like pomelos." This means:
If you like fruit, you'll like pomelos.
If you don't like fruit, you won't like pomelos.
If you like fruit a little, you'll like pomelos a little.

And so on. Your liking of pomelos is directly tied to your liking of fruit.
But not all the examples are that simple, and those are the more interesting ones. They don't look easy to define. I think they are from legal and scholarly writing. The meaning still looks to me something like "if there is any truth to the statement ***, then..."

Here's an example:
To the extent that ordinary Americans have any
understanding of the significant constitutional
differences between the U.S. and Canada, they are
probably aware of the differing approaches to hate speech.
To reword this without "to the extent that":
If ordinary Americans have any understanding of the significant constitutional differences between the US and Canada, then probably what they are aware of are the differing approaches to hate speech.
Implied in there is that most Americans probably don't know a thing about these legal differences, and that the few who do, probably know about hate speech. I think sometimes "to the extent that" carries a value judgement that implies the extent is low and limited.

There are probably other subtleties.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes I am a foreign student. I am asking this question because I could not get the accurate meaning of this usage of "to the extent that" when I am reading some academic articles in my field.

Here is an example (I simplified it a bit but I think the meaning is not lost). Suppose a beverage producer does not label an alcohol-containing drink with an explicit sign showing that it contains alcohol, and I say:
To the extent that they do not indicate its alcohol content, they are poisoning the consumers.
I guess the meaning here is, what they do is "fail to label accurately", which does not amount to "killing people". But "given the fact that they fail to label accurately", it is "almost equivalent to they are killing people".
I am not sure if this is the right example, but I think this is the one I often find.
I tried to read the sentence with the second part first, that is

they are poisoning consumers to the extent that they do not indicate ...
and I think here "to the extent" appears as if it carries the face value meaning of "to the extent". But in the order of the original sentence, it sounds more like "given the fact that", "considering that".
Let me know what all of you think.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I have seen in various places people using "to the extent that" as if it means "given that fact that" ... up for this usage but could not find any reference on the internet. Could anyone give me some information? Thanks.[/nq]
Everyone else on this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong. "To the extent that" is merely a circumlocution for "inasmuch as":
Main Entry: in·as·much as

1 : in the degree that : INSOFAR AS
2 : in view of the fact that : SINCE

The second sense is the one you were asking after.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Thanks for all the replies. Yes I am a foreign student. I am asking this question because I could not ... beverage producer does not label an alcohol-containing drink with an explicit sign showing that it contains alcohol, and I say:[/nq]
So this isn't a real example? I think your own uncertainties over what the phrase means have led you to give an example that is not very likely or illustrative.
[nq:1]To the extent that they do not indicate its alcohol content, they are poisoning the consumers. I guess the meaning ... original sentence, it sounds more like "given the fact that", "considering that". Let me know what all of you think.[/nq]
I would read it as, "If it is true that they do not indicate its alcohol content, then they are poisoning the consumers."
I think the speaker is indicating that they are not certain how often that's "the extent" such labelling occurs.
But it's rather vague and maybe they meant to imply something else. I wouldn't place very much significance on it.
"The extent to which" is exactly the sort of phrase people reach for when they are struggling to connect ideas without precisely knowing what the connection is. It sounds learned. They might mean something by it, and they might not.

Best wishes Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1] Here is an example (I simplified it a bit but I think the meaning is not lost). Suppose a ... alcohol, and I say: To the extent that they do not indicate its alcohol content, they are poisoning the consumers.[/nq]
This is a good example of the phrase.
[nq:1]I guess the meaning here is, what they do is "fail to label accurately", which does not amount to "killing people". But "given the fact that they fail to label accurately", it is "almost equivalent to they are killing people". [/nq]
Almost, but not quite. "To the extent that" can be taken literally. It describes the extent to which something is true, and its normal use is with statements that require qualification or explanation.

Poisoning is not exactly killing, so let's substitute 'poisoning' for 'killing' in your example. If I contacted the authorities and told them that the manufacturer was poisoning people, giving no other information, they would very likely feel deceived and misled when the truth was uncovered.
Poisoning is actually administering a noxious substance to someone, most often without their knowledge. Alcohol can be viewed as a noxious substance or toxin. So, the manufacturer *is* poisoning consumers, strictly speaking, but that statement needs the qualification because without it, people would not understand "poisoning" as a fair description of what the manufacturer is doing.
[nq:1]But in the order of the original sentence, it sounds more like "given the fact that", "considering that". [/nq]
I disagree with these phrases as substitutes. In many cases, they would work as an alternative, but they would not mean exactly the same thing. "Insofar as" and "inasmuch as" are the best equivalent phrases I've seen given here.

Willondon
AUE FAQ http://www.alt-usage-english.org/intro a.shtml

What does "to the extent that" mean ?

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