What does "bag ladies" mean?

Question

I am trapped by the meaning of "bag ladies" in the sentence "that may have been to far out of the character for 'bag ladies'". Would anyone help me out?Thanks,Cogentfrank.

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[nq:1]I am trapped by the meaning of "bag ladies" in the sentence "that may have been to far out of the character for 'bag ladies'". Would anyone help me out? Thanks, Cogentfrank.[/nq]
Bag ladies are women, generally homeless, often mentally ill, usually relatively unkempt, who carry all of their belongings with them at all times, either in a mass of shopping bags or sometimes in a grocery cart, wagon or some other wheeled conveyance. They wander the streets during the day, and hole up someplace safe (for sufficiently vague values of "safe") at night.
Pictures of a bag lady:

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[nq:2]I am trapped by the meaning of "bag ladies" in ... for 'bag ladies'". Would anyone help me out? Thanks, Cogentfrank.[/nq]
[nq:1]Bag ladies are women, generally homeless, often mentally ill, usually relatively unkempt, who carry all of their belongings with them ... They wander the streets during the day, and hole up someplace safe (for sufficiently vague values of "safe") at night.[/nq]
Exactly. It's worth noting that bag ladies were given that name when lady was still a term of respect and not a synonym for woman, as so many use it now.
Maybe this is partly because bag woman would have sounded like the female version of bagman, someone who collects illegal payments for his boss (such as bribes, kick-backs, extortion, etc.)

But I tend to think it was for most of those who first used the term an effort to show respect to those in a hard situation. Similar to cleaning lady, which is used more often ime than cleaning woman.
[nq:1]Pictures of a bag lady: [/nq]
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

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[nq:1]Exactly. It's worth noting that bag ladies were given that name when lady was still a term of respect and ... respect to those in a hard situation. Similar to cleaning lady, which is used more often ime than cleaning woman.[/nq]
I've never heard "bag lady" (or its longer version, "shopping-bag lady") used in an effort to show respect.
While it's not directly derogatory, it's hardly respectful or euphemistic. In fact, it is now often used as an insult aimed at a woman who dresses shabily or sloppily regardless of her actual social or economic status: "Mary Kate Olsen looks like a frickin' bag lady!"

Cassell's Dictionary of Slang dates it to the 1960's; sociologically, that is when asylums, residential mental hospitals, and sheltered care homes began to scale back and close, dumping mentally ill people onto the streets to fend for themselves.

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re: bag lady
[nq:2]But I tend to think it was for most of ... lady, which is used more often ime than cleaning woman.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've never heard "bag lady" (or its longer version, "shopping-bag lady") used in an effort to show respect. While it's not directly derogatory, it's hardly respectful or euphemistic.[/nq]
Agreed. I've only ever heard it used dismissively or at best as an almost neutral/descriptive/tolerant term for a fairly harmless, unkempt, crazy old bint living on the street.

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

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[nq:2]Exactly. It's worth noting that bag ladies were given that ... lady, which is used more often ime than cleaning woman.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've never heard "bag lady" (or its longer version, "shopping-bag lady") used in an effort to show respect. While it's ... shabily or sloppily regardless of her actual social or economic status: "Mary Kate Olsen looks like a frickin' bag lady!"[/nq]
I really don't understand this comment. "Bag lady" is not a term of respect or disrespect. It's a descriptive term for a female person in reduced, very reduced, circumstances. It describes a female who carries all of her possessions around with her.
You can use just about any term as an insult. When you refer to an ordinary woman as a "looking like a bag lady" you are insulting her by the use of hyperbole. You can use "tramp" or "street ***" to describe a male, and it's an insult when it involves hyperbole and a descriptive term when it describes the actual circumstances of the person.
I don't hear females described with insulting hyperbole any more or less than I hear males described with insulting hyperbole. "Shave. You look like ***" is no different from "Dress better. You look like a bag lady".

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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[nq:1]On 01 Jun 2008, Barbara Bailey wrote[/nq]
[nq:1]re: bag lady[/nq]
[nq:2]=20 I've never heard "bag lady" (or its longer version, ... While it's not directly derogatory, it's hardly respectful or=20 euphemistic.[/nq]
[nq:1]Agreed. I've only ever heard it used dismissively or at best as=20 an almost neutral/descriptive/tolerant term for a fairly harmless,=20 unkempt, crazy old bint living on the street.[/nq]
Although COD10 gives, for "bint":
=C2=B7 n. Brit. informal, derogatory a girl or woman. =E2=80=93 ORIGIN C19: from Arab., lit. =E2=80=98daughter, girl=E2=80=99

I've never heard it used for any woman other than a young one, and certainly not in a decade or three.
=20
Robin=20
(BrE)
Herts, England=20

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[nq:2]While it's not directly derogatory, it's hardly respectful or euphemistic. ... status: "Mary Kate Olsen looks like a frickin' bag lady!"[/nq]
[nq:1]I really don't understand this comment. "Bag lady" is not a term of respect or disrespect. It's a descriptive term ... with insulting hyperbole. "Shave. You look like ***" is no different from "Dress better. You look like a bag lady".[/nq]
Tony, what terms of respect are regularly also used as insults? For male or female. I can't offhand think of any, unless you want ot count terms like "***" or "SOB" or "ball breaker" that are more accurately insults sometimes used to indicate admiration or awe for a level of behavior. But that's not what I'd call a "term of respect".

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[nq:2]On 01 Jun 2008, Barbara Bailey wrote re: bag lady ... fairly harmless, unkempt, crazy old bint living on the street.[/nq]
[nq:1]Although COD10 gives, for "bint": Â· n. Brit. informal, derogatory a girl or woman. â?? ORIGIN C19: from Arab., lit. â??daughter, girlâ?? I've never heard it used for any woman other than a young one, and certainly not in a decade or three.[/nq]
Ditto. However, being familiar with the derogatory meaning I suffer a mental twitch when I see the word used in a normal context. For example, from Aljazeera.net:
http://tinyurl.com/5tfmp4
The Shafallah Centre (for Children with Special Needs) is one of the humanitarian initiatives of Sheikha Mozah bint Nasser Al-Missned, the wife of Qatar's ruler and president of the board of directors of the Qatar Foundation for Education, Science and Community Development.

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

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[nq:2]I really don't understand this comment. "Bag lady" is not ... different from "Dress better. You look like a bag lady".[/nq]
[nq:1]Tony, what terms of respect are regularly also used as insults? For male or female. I can't offhand think of ... to indicate admiration or awe for a level of behavior. But that's not what I'd call a "term of respect".[/nq]
Where did I say that "bag lady" is a term of respect, or bring up the subject of using terms of respect as insults?
I said "bag lady" is a descriptive term that is neither a term of respect nor of disrespect. I alluded to the fact that "bag lady" can be an insulting term when applied to an ordinary person if hyperbole is involved.
If your reply has anything to do with what I posted, then please point out where.

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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[nq:2]Exactly. It's worth noting that bag ladies were given that ... lady, which is used more often ime than cleaning woman.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've never heard "bag lady" (or its longer version, "shopping-bag lady") used in an effort to show respect. While it's ... sheltered care homes began to scale back and close, dumping mentally ill people onto the streets to fend for themselves.[/nq]
Despite your experience, I stand by my post.
It's worth noting that the bulk of my post revolves around phrases such as, "bag ladies were given that name when...", and "most of those who first used the term."
But I'm also basing what I said both on the meaning I hear when I hear the phrase, and the meaning I tend to use it with when I use the phrase. I don't think I'm alone. In the 60's and to this day.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

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