What are the rules...

Question

I am a native English speaker who is trying to help an ESL student with their homework.

I don't know why some of the things she writes are wrong... I just know that they are wrong. Can anyone help tell me what rules apply to the sentences below so I can explain to her why she is wrong?

She had to read a book and then write an essay about the book after, so most of the verbs should be in a past tense, I'm just not sure what tenses, etc.

1) Correct Sentence: If he were a real person, I would want to be his friend

   Her mistake: If he is a real person, I want to be his friend

2) Correct Sentence: Also he helped his father make

   Her mistake: Also he helped his father made

3) Correct Sentence: Finally he has to find someone and ask for help

   Her mistake: Finally he has to find someone and asks for his help

Thank you to anyone who can help!

Cool Breeze · Accepted Answer

Welcome to EF, Penstaar! It takes most people quite along time to learn the basics of English grammar and there's no way you can master it in a matter of minutes. For your first example you should study conditional sentences; for the second, the plain/bare infinitive and for the third, clause types and the use of the infinitive. You can pick up a grammar book and find out about these things because explaining them here would require writing many pages.

As you don't seem to know even the very basics of grammar, it would really be pointless for anyone to try to explain all those things to you. If your student went on to ask you a question prompted by your explanation, you would probably be at your wits' end again. A person who doesn't know how to fly can't fly an airplane. A person who doesn't know English grammar can't teach it. You can have conversation classes with your student, though. - Good luck!

CB

CalifJim · Answer

Welcome to English Forums!

1) Correct Sentence: If he were a real person, I would want to be his friend

Her mistake: If he is a real person, I want to be his friend

This is the most difficult of the three. It's called a second conditional. You can search this site or others for lots of information on conditionals. If your ESL student has not advanced far enough to have heard of these conditional patterns, it might be best not to attempt too much of an explanation. Thoughts that are "imaginary" are placed in particular patterns, and this is one of them. That may be all you need for now if she is a beginner.

2) Correct Sentence: Also he helped his father make

Her mistake: Also he helped his father made

To begin with, this is not a complete sentence. What did he help his father make?
The verb help is followed by an infinitive (full or bare). help someone to make ... / help someone make ...
This comes under the topic of catenative verbs. When one verb is dependent on another, as in help ... make, it's called a catenative structure. Again, you can search the internet for a lot of information on catenatives.

3) Correct Sentence: Finally he has to find someone and ask for help

Her mistake: Finally he has to find someone and asks for his help

Like find, ask is in the infinitive form. He has to find ... and (has to) ask for ... help. With the conjunction and, the to on the second infinitive can be omitted. Note that the main verb has is also omitted after and.
____________

Encourage your student to post her questions directly to this site herself.

CJ

Fluent · Answer

3) Correct Sentence: Finally he has to find someone and ask for help

Her mistake: Finally he has to find someone and asks for his help

I can tell for sure that her answer was incorrect because the verb 'ask' must agree with the previous verb after 'has to'

E.g: she has to to get there at 6 o'clock am and vote first. but not (gets nor votes)

the other sentences are dependent, realated to the context.

1) Correct Sentence: If he were a real person, I would want to be his friend

Her mistake: If he is a real person, I want to be his friend

2) Correct Sentence: Also he helped his father make

Her mistake: Also he helped his father made

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Hi Penstaar, and welcome to the forum.
1) Your student is trying to master the subjunctive mood. It is more common grammatical construction in other languages.
It is used for a subjective situation with a false hypothesis: The conditional follows. It expresses the consequence of that hypothesis.
If I were king of the universe, I would....
This is actually present time, but the past form of the verb is used.
This http://www.lousywriter.com/verbs_subjunctive_mood.phphas a long and detailed explanation of subjunctive.
If he had a million dollars, he would....
2) There are some English verbs that can be followed by another verb. They are called catenative verbs. Some are followed by infinitive, some by a gerund, and some by a bare infinitive. "help" is followed by the infinitive (bare or regular) - Please help me tie my shoes. Please help him (to) get on the bus.

This link has a good explanation.
3) This is a sentence with 2 infinitive phrases, linked by the conjunction "and".. It would help to separate it into 2 sentences to make the grammar clearer:
1) He has to find someone. 2) He has to ask for his help.

Penstaar · Answer

Thanks to everyone for the help... I appreciate the time you took to answer!

There is no way I can explain this stuff to my student, and I guess I learned English without learning these rules, so she doesn't need to know them either. I would like to ask for advice though...

Here is my situation:

I am a volunteer tutor who helps a 14 year old girl once a week with any homework problems. She happens to be an ESL student, so many of her problems stem from not understanding the material.

I read through the material with her and try to explain what it means, I help her learn new words, etc... but is there anything else I could do to help her improve her English?

I guess the most difficult part if when I correct her and she says "Why?".... ummm

Do I just say "Because that is the way it is"? Not sure what else to do.

Thank you.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Hi Penstaar:
If I were you, I would go to the local library and check out what references they have on English grammar. As babies, we naturally learn the grammar of our parent's language, no matter what it is. We absorb the "rules" just by practice. A new learner (especially an adult) needs more structure. That is why knowing the "rules" is important. So I would recommend that you get something like "English Grammar for Dummies." I checked out "Phonics for Dummies" for my ESL student who could speak, but not read the language, It was very helpful. It would depend on what is available; or find something in the used book section on Amazon. I have bought used picture dictionaries in good condition for less than a dollar (plus shipping).

Good luck!

CalifJim · Answer

penstaarI guess the most difficult part if when I correct her and she says "Why?".. ummm

Do I just say "Because that is the way it is"? Not sure what else to do.

I think you should say that you just don't know why, and put her in contact with an ESL tutor if that's possible.

CJ

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