We'd never guess / We'd never have guessed

Question

Hi teachers,We'd never guess that this little boy would grow up to be a leader.  (two photos juxtapost in a page)Would you tell me why it isn't "We'd never have guessed"?  Thank you.Tinanam

Mr Wordy · Accepted Answer

"We'd never have guessed" seems better to me.

Tinanam0102 · Answer

Hi Mr. Wordy,

Thank you for helping me.

1. When you say "seems better to me", do that mean the writer's version is also correct in that context?

2. When is "We'd never guess that..." used. Could you please show me one example?

3. Quote: "It means that Barcelona has changed so much that if someone who had lived there a long time ago came back to visit, he would not recognize it."

>>I came across that sentence structure. Would you tell me if this is conditional (if.. had lived, I would...) or simply an event in the past?

Thank you so much.

Tinanam

Mr Wordy · Answer

1. It's one of those cases when one reads what one assumes is meant even if the words arguably don't exactly say that. So, usually one would read it without hesitating or stopping to analyse.

2. "His secret went with him to the grave; we would never guess it". Our viewpoint is some past time at which the narrative is set. We are looking forward from that time, and at no time in that future will we guess the secret. The difference between this and your example is that in your example it (presumably) later becomes obvious to everyone that the boy did grow up to become a leader. So, in fact, we would later guess (or come to know) this fact. In contrast, "We'd never have guessed" to me more clearly indicates that we didn't guess at the time.

I suppose it's possible, though, for "We'd never guess that this little boy would grow up to be a leader" to work if the scope of "never" is imagined to be curtailed by context -- for example, if we imagine "never" to mean "never while he was a little boy". This is not a very straighforward issue, and you may get different opinions from different people.

3. It's describing a hypothetical situation. It's imagining what would happen if such a person returned to visit, not talking about an actual person who actually did return. However, the hypothetical person had really lived in Barcelona, if you get my drift.

Philip · Answer

You are correct.

'[not] guessing' is a past action happening before his 'growing up'.

Tinanam0102 · Answer

Hi Mr Wordy, hi Philip,

Thank you for your help.

Have a wonderful day.

Tinanam

We'd never guess / We'd never have guessed

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