We lived in Ireland for five years

Question

We lived in Ireland for five yearsWe (live) ________ in Ireland for five years then we (move) _____ to London in 2000.I think the answer is "lived/ moved" not "had lived / moved" Am I right.Thanks for your consideration.

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

We lived in Ireland for five years
We (live) __ in Ireland for five years and then we (move) __ to London in 2000.
I think the answer is "lived/ moved" not "had lived / moved" Am I right.Yes.

Clive

Dimsumexpress · Answer

The key indicator for using past perfect is this question: Do I have two events involved in the scenarios you are describing? Clearly, that's the case here.

We (live) __ in Ireland for five years then we (move) __ to London in 2000.

Improved:

We had lived in Ireland for five years before we moved to London in 2000.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

However, words like 'before' and 'after' usually make the sequence of events very clear. In such cases, simple past is commonly used rather than past perfect.

eg

She turned on the stove before she cooked dinner.

instead of

She had turned on the stove before she cooked dinner.

There are also some other general considerations for use of past perfect such as the writer's possible desire to keep the focus on the later event.

Best wishes, Clive

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Hi Clive,

Thanks for your comments. Please allow me to clarify my own question. I've learned that if we have 2 events which took place in the past, the long preceding event should be described in past perfect.

i.e.

I had taken computer science for two semesters before I decided to change major during my second year of college.

Can you comment on this? is the past perfect considered incorrect, or overkilled in your opinion?

It appears to me that whether a sentence should take past perfect is rather loosely open to the interpretation of the readers. Is this a raw statement?

Dimsumexpress · Answer

In an attempt to reconfirm my own understanding, I've found this: http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html

The Past Perfect expresses the idea that something occurred before another action in the past. It can also show that something happened before a specific time in the past.

Examples:

I had never seen such a beautiful beach before I went to Kauai.

I did not have any money because I had lost my wallet.

Tony knew Istanbul so well because he had visited the city several times.

Had Susan ever studied Thai before she moved to Thailand?

She only understood the movie because she had read the book.

Kristine had never been to an opera before last night.

We were not able to get a hotel room because we had not booked in advance.

A: Had you ever visited the U.S. before your trip in 2006?
B: Yes, I had been to the U.S. once before.

CalifJim · Answer

fireflysaigonWe lived in Ireland for five years
We (live) _ in Ireland for five years then we (move) _ to London in 2000.
I think the answer is "lived/ moved" not "had lived / moved" Am I right.Thanks for your consideration.

You're right because the story is being told in the same order it occurred. If you mentioned the move first, however, you would have something like this:

We moved to London in 2000. (We had lived in Ireland for five years.)

It would not be:

We moved to London in 2000. We lived in Ireland for five years.

That makes it seem that you moved to London first, then lived in Ireland, but that's not what you want to say. People expect you to tell the events of your story in the same order they occurred, so sometimes you need the past perfect to let them know that the order of events is not what they expect.

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Please allow me to clarify my own question. I've learned that if we have 2 events which took place in the past, the long preceding event should be described in past perfect. I don't feel that the lengthof the earleir event is a major factor.

i.e.

I had taken computer science for two semesters before I decided to change major during my second year of college.

Can you comment on this? is the past perfect considered incorrect, No, not at all. But do you fimd the ssequence of events unclear if I say ''I took computer science . . . '?

or overkilled in your opinion? One mean's overkill is amnother man's emphasis. It's the wrier's choice.

It appears to me that whether a sentence should take past perfect is rather loosely open to the interpretation of the writer ~~readers.~~ Is this a raw statement? Yes, it is. There re times when it is needed, some of which are explained earlier in this thread.

Would you like to write some more sentences using Past Perfect, for us to comment on?

Best wishes, Clive

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Hi Clive,

Thanks for taking the time on my query. I guess what I had in mind when I used "had taken computer science for 2 semesters.." rather than the simple "took" was the deliberate intent to emphasize the duration I had spent time in the course before deciding to change major in the second year. I know simple past would work in everyday conversation. But I didn't expect the contrary when I opted the past perfect. Now I have few more past perfect scenarios for you to comment on. Please let me know if past perfect is an overkill, being incorrect or unnecessay.

Thanks,

The couple next door had argued and gotten physical frequently months prior to the last night's shooting.

He had worked for a couple of restaurants in town as a waiter before he became a big time singer.

I lived in New York for 5 years while I had worked for IBM between years 1900 to 1995.

Japan had practically conquered the entire region West of the Pacific before making the biggest mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor.

Many people had counted him out 20 years ago when he lost his campaign for the majorship.

But he is returning to politics in a big way.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

The couple next door had argued and gotten physical frequently months prior to the last night's shooting. Sounds fine either way to me.

He had worked for a couple of restaurants in town as a waiter before he became a big time singer.

I wouldn't say this is wrong, but I prefer simple past.

I lived in New York for 5 years while I had worked for IBM between years 1900 to 1995.

I'd reword this whole thing.

I lived in New York from 1990 to 1995, while I was working for IBM.

Japan had practically conquered the entire region West of the Pacific before making its ~~the~~ biggest mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor. Sounds good. Puts the focus on the time of the mistake.

Many people had counted him out 20 years ago when he lost his campaign for mayor ~~the majorship~~, but he is returning to politics in a big way.

The past perfect here makes it sound like they counted him out before he lost his campaign, which is not your meaning. I'd say

Many people counted him out 20 years ago after he lost his campaign . . .

Best wishes, Clive

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Thank you Clive for the critique. For the New York sentence, is there anything wrong or misleading in the construction that needs to be reworded. After the rewording, the original past perfect context has been erased. Maybe I tried too hard to concoct a past perfect sentence.

Clive
The past perfect here makes it sound like they counted him out before he lost his campa

Clive
The past perfect here makes it sound like they counted him out before he lost his campaign, which is not your meaning. I'd say

Many people counted him out 20 years ago after he lost his campaign . . .

I agree "after" is a better choice than "when" for the context. But I also have this thought. When all the ballots were completely counted late into the evening, that's when he realized he had lost the race, at which time "when" and "after" could be relatively the same. So if the people counted him out from that point forward, "when" or "after" in the sentence should have negligible impact to the meaning of the sentence. Do you see it that way?

In any case, after reading your comments, I came to this conclusion. Even with the rules described in English reference books, the scope of usage still has quite a bit of room for interpretation and personal preference because in my interpreation of the above context, Past perfect was properly used. But you opted simple past as the answer.

Here are a few examples from http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html

which said:

The Past Perfect expresses the idea that something occurred before another action in the past. It can also show that something happened before a specific time in the past.

I had never seen such a beautiful beach before I went to Kauai.

I did not have any money because I had lost my wallet.

Tony knew Istanbul so well because he had visited the city several times.

Can you show me how these 3 differ from my sentences in the previous post?

Thanks again.

We lived in Ireland for five years

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