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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage

Vowel for 'dad' vs 'mad'

I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in 'dad' (/'had'/'lad'/'pad' etc.) and that in 'mad'/'sad'/'bad'. But surely it's not just me that does make something of a distinction here - I believe it to be only a difference in length, but it is theoretically phonemic, in that say, "Is that Sinbad?" and "Is that sin bad?" are different (even deliberately removing the natural stress pattern). As far as I can tell, only those latter 3 words (and their derivatives) use the long 'a' with a 'd', but there are others ending with 'n' and 'm' ('dam' & 'fan', for instance, but not 'am' or 'can').

Any other speakers here have the same or similar distinction?
  

Top answer

[nq:1]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in ... ('dam' & 'fan', for instance, but not 'am' or 'can'). lang recently: Andrew Gwilliam To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"

— Usenet

  • [nq:1]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in ...
  • ('dam' & 'fan', for instance, but not 'am' or 'can').
  • lang recently: Andrew Gwilliam To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"
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81 Answers
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[nq:1]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in ... ('dam' & 'fan', for instance, but not 'am' or 'can'). Any other speakers here have the same or similar distinction?[/nq]
"Me too!"
I posted a similar query to sci.lang recently:


Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm
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[nq:1]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in 'dad' (/'had'/'lad'/'pad' etc.) and that in 'mad'/'sad'/'bad'.[/nq]
I find no difference between these vowels.
[nq:1]But surely it's not just me that does make something of a distinction here - I believe it to be ... in that say, "Is that Sinbad?" and "Is that sin bad?"
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[nq:2]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access ... the vowel in 'dad' (/'had'/'lad'/'pad' etc.) and that in 'mad'/'sad'/'bad'.[/nq]
[nq:1]I find no difference between these vowels.[/nq]
It appears that some speakers of RP have this difference; I wouldn't swear that some speakers of AusE and NZE don't have it as well. See my other post for some background for this.
I have th
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[nq:1]It appears that some speakers of RP have this difference; I wouldn't swear that some speakers of AusE and NZE ... "bad" ~ "bad". It's probably not a coincidence that one of these is from a verb (cf "swim" ~ "swam").[/nq]
This is looking a whole lot like the can/can (lax/tense) distinction in several East Coast (US) dialects, including those of New York City (LSCIA), including my own dial
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[nq:2]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access ... Any other speakers here have the same or similar distinction?[/nq]
[nq:1]"Me too!" I posted a similar query to sci.lang recently:[/nq]

Well there you go - don't read sci.lang as a rule.

I noticed you put 'lad' as a long a, but for me 'lad' is identical to 'dad'. What about your 'am' words? I think all mine are lon
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[nq:2]The only minimal pair is "bad" ~ "bad". It's probably not a coincidence that one of these is from a verb (cf "swim" ~ "swam").[/nq]
[nq:1]This is looking a whole lot like the can/can (lax/tense) distinction in several East Coast (US) dialects [/nq]
You know what, the first few times I read about this, I was positive I didn't make this distinction. Now that I think about it, you might
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[nq:2]This is looking a whole lot like the can/can (lax/tense) distinction in several East Coast (US) dialects [/nq]
[nq:1]You know what, the first few times I read about this, I was positive I didn't make this distinction. Now ... with those few previously mentioned -ad words, most -am and most -an words, all '-ag' words, and that's it, AFAICT.[/nq]
I have finally established that
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[nq:1]I have finally established that there can be a difference in the can/can vowels, but it is there only ir ... of nasal sound accompanying the "kn". The "can" (of beans) will always have a distinct vowel, although a short one.[/nq]
Of course, that's why I said stressed "can". When unstressed it just gets a schwa.
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[nq:2]I have finally established that there can be a difference ... will always have a distinct vowel, although a short one.[/nq]
[nq:1]Of course, that's why I said stressed "can". When unstressed it just gets a schwa.[/nq]
For me, a stressed "can" it is the same for both meanings. Not a shred of difference.

Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
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[nq:1]I notice that none of the dictionaries I have access to distinguish between the basic pronunciation of the vowel in 'dad' (/'had'/'lad'/'pad' etc.) and that in 'mad'/'sad'/'bad'.[/nq]
The same vowel is used in all of these words in standard English.
[nq:1]But surely it's not just me that does make something of a distinction here - I believe it to be ... in that say, "Is that Sinbad?"
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