Verb tense question

Question

Hi,Hi,I told her that we were   a great   establishment and would definitely prosper in the future.I   told her that we are a great establishment and will definitely     prosper in the future.So the conclusion is   that backshifting isnt always required and tense combinations are   allowed.  Last but not least, so the   sentences above could essentially mean the same thing?  Both sentences mean:  I told her that our company is a   great establishment and can definitely become successful in the future.    Right?P.S.  What about mixing the tenses even more, such as:I told her that we are a   great establishment and would definitely prosper in the future. -   Would this be pushing the envelope?

Terryxpress · Accepted Answer

I see the difficulty you are having. Look at this sentence:

He said the company was profitable.
You are reporting a conversation, say, of a year ago. What about today? Is it still profitable? Has the economic downturn perhaps meant that it is on the verge of bankruptcy?
You don't know: you can only relate what was said and was true at the time of the conversation.
However, what if the conversation was earlier that day, or just last week? If in your judgment 'that the company is profitable' still holds true, then you might say:

He said the company is profitable.

It is a judgment call on the part of the speaker.

Compare that with this sentence:

I said/told him the company is profitable.

Here, even though you are reporting a conversion in the past, if to your knowledge it is still true that 'the company is profitable', the sentence above would be correct.

(Understand, though, that the longer ago that conversation was, the context of the current conversation and how the speaker phrased it would differ:

I told him when we first started these negotiations over a year ago that the company was profitable. If he thinks, with the way the economy is, that we might be in financial trouble, I can assure him that (the company is still profitable)/show him the yearly financial report which clearly shows we are maintaining profitability.

I'll discuss 'would' and will' in another reply

CalifJim · Answer

PreciousJonesSo the conclusion is that backshifting isn't always required

That's true. Backshifting is always correct, however.

You may want to think of reports in two categories: immediate reports and historic reports. Immediate reports are made quite soon after they are heard. What constitutes "quite soon" is left to the judgment of the speaker, but most people would say that a report after only a few minutes is an immediate report and a report after many years is a historic report.

An immediate report can be done with or without a backshift. Both versions mean the same thing.

A historic report is always done with a backshift.
________
I told her that we are a great establishment and would definitely prosper in the future. - Would this be pushing the envelope?

You can do this, but you may end up confusing your reader. You will be understood in most cases, but I think it would be better not to mix the tenses so much.

CJ

Terryxpress · Answer

CalifJim:
I told her that we are a great establishment and would definitely prosper in the future. - Would this be pushing the envelope?

You can do this, but you may end up confusing your reader. You will be understood in most cases, but I think it would be better not to mix the tenses so much.

Me:
Language is ego-centric: it is used to express the speaker's view of an event.

told: has to be Past tense, because the event of 'telling' is a single completed act

are/were: the use of 'were' here could be confusing: was it 'great' at one time in the past, but no longer; or is the speaker being dispassionate, objective, and strictly reporting the conversation? If this sentence is part of a conversation that an employee is having with the CEO, I can well imagine that the CEO would take umbrage and retort: we ARE a great establishment! Similarly, a proud employee would express this feeling when reporting what he said back then by the use of 'are great' if the company is currently continuing to prosper.

We then get into the quagmire of modals.
An employee of the company, lower down in the organizational management, would have to use 'would', because he is not making the financial decisions that determine the companies viability/'greatness' - his perspective is 'and I believe that it will continue to prosper'.
It would be unsettling to shareholders if the CEO announced 'it would..." since prosperity of the company is so much in his hands: his perspective is, ' we are great now, and it is within my power to ensure that future prosperity is 'inevitable' - it WILL definitely prosper...

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