Using a subjunctive and an independent clause

Question

I need to know if the subjunctive ‘though’ creates a dependant clause. Is the clause, “Though the car always starts for her,” a sentence or is it a fragment?
In other words, which of the following are correct?

a. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. Though the car always starts for her.
b. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; though the car always starts for her.
c. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; though, the car always starts for her.
d. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable, though the car always starts for her.

LossForWords · Accepted Answer

Actually I think I should be using the word conjunctive not subjunctive in my above question.

MountainHiker · Answer

I need to know if the subjunctive ‘though’ creates a dependant clause. Is the clause, “Though the car always starts for her,” a sentence or is it a fragment?
In other words, which of the following are correct?

a. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. Though the car always starts for her.
b. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; though the car always starts for her.
c. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; though, the car always starts for her.
d. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable, though the car always starts for her.

Though the car always starts for her, is a subordinate clause.

A. Wrong. Part II is incomplete as you only have a subordinate clause.

B. Wrong. The semicolon acts to join two independent clauses. We know that Part II is only a subordinate clause.

C. Tough call (Where are you CalifJim?). I'd say "though" here is used as an adverb, not as a conjunction. So what you really have is the following:

1. Sentence 1: Most people consider Jill's car unreliable. Okay.
2. Sentence 2: Though, the car always starts for her. (I think this is okay)

So joining them with a semicolon might be okay. But to be honest, this construction strikes me as odd as I don't see "though" used as shown in Sentence C very often, if at all.

But if you changed Sentence C to the following:

3. Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; however, the car always starts for her.

Sentence 3 is okay.

Let's say the jury is out on Sentence C. Wait for Mister Macawber or CalifJim to voice an opinion.

D. Okay. Part I is the independent clause, and Part II is the subordinate clause.

You can see a list of common subordinating conjunctions [url="http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm"]here at Conjunctions[/url].

I hope this helps answer most of your question. Again, I encourage you to wait for CalifJim or Mister Macawber to provide their opinions on Sentence C.

MountainHiker

For my own reference:
Keywords: subordinate clause, independent clause, conjunction,

LossForWords · Answer

Thank you, this helps. I think I understand what you are saying. ‘Though’ causes the clause to be dependent, just like ‘while’ would. If the clause were dependant then only 'd' would be correct. On the other hand, if I used ‘however’ the clause would be independent. In that case 'a' would be correct if I added a comma after ‘however’ and 'c' would be correct.

Am I on track?

MountainHiker · Answer

‘Though’ causes the clause to be dependent, just like ‘while’ would.

Correct.

On the other hand, if I used ‘however’ the clause would be independent.

I think we are on the same track.

Your original sentence ( a ) was as follows:

a) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. Though the car always starts for her.

Using "however" we could rewrite that as follows:

1) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. However, the car always starts for her.
2) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable; however, the car always starts for her.
3) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. The car always starts for her, however.
4) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. The car, however, always starts for her.
5) Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. The car always starts for her.

Notice in sentence 5, we don't use however. But the transition from the first sentence to the second sentence is awkward. Her car is unreliable. It always starts. It seems confusing.

But when we use "however", we are showing a contrast.

6) The car always starts for her. *** Complete sentence. ***
~~~

7) Though the car always starts for her. Incomplete sentence (subordinate clause)

8) Though the car always starts for her WHAT?

9) Though the car always starts for her, most people consider Jill's car unreliable.
~~~

Similarly we could use "while"

10) While the car always starts for her. Incomplete sentence (subordinate clause)

11) While the car always starts for her WHAT?

12) While the car always starts for her, most people consider Jill's car unreliable.

I hope that helps.

MountainHiker

LossForWords · Answer

Thank you.  That completely answers my question.

MountainHiker · Answer

LossForWords,

Check this thread again later. Mister Macawber and CalifJim are wonderful at providing excellent explanations. They might have some great explanations that will help.

MountainHiker

CalifJim · Answer

M. Hiker,
You are far too kind.
It appears the question is answered, so I have little to add.
I'm better with the semantics questions, and I avoid the punctuation ones, in case you haven't noticed.

I can barely work out the punctuation in my own sentences!

I do know that the clause "though ..." is a subordinate clause, i.e., a fragment.
And I do know that the only way to punctuate "however", according to some style manuals, is:

The ...... ; however, ....

At least in formal writing. And I know you're not supposed to start sentences with "and" or "but" or "however". But I don't follow those rules for informal writing such as this.

If you want two sentences, with adverbial "though", I'd say put the "though" at the end.

Most people consider Jill’s car unreliable. The car always starts for her, though.

MountainHiker · Answer

CalifJim,

And I know you're not supposed to start sentences with "and" or "but" or "however".

No, no, no CalifJim.

It is perfectly acceptable to start sentences with "And". If you look at the beginning of most dictionaries, you will often find sentences that begin with "And." And even our good friend Shakespeare began sentences with "and".

Here are some references to support my argument.

1. [url="http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/032601.htm"]Get It Write[/url]

2. [url="http://www.writing911.com/realworld/free/outdatedrules.htm"]Writing911.com[/url]

3. [url="http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/009.html"]1. Grammar: Traditional Rules, Word Order, Agreement, and Case - 9[/url]

4. [url="http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/b.html#but"]Guide to Grammar and Style by Jack Lynch -- But At The Beginning[/url]

5. [url="http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/issue41.html"]A special plea to all teachers from Plain English Campaign trainer Peter Holmes[/url]

6. [url="http://home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/myths.htm"]Myth: Never begin a sentence with But or And[/url]

Well, this is a good start.

MountainHiker

Keywords: but, and, "start sentence"

CalifJim · Answer

Blame my fourth grade teacher!

And I prefer to not split infinitives, too!

MountainHiker · Answer

CalifJim,

And I prefer to not split infinitives, too!

Sheesh, you're no fun at all!

When I was younger, I was a huge fan of Star Trek. I used to watch every day after school.

You remember the opening line or theme, don't you?

"To boldly go where no man has gone before."

Split infinitive. What were they thinking?!?

You can read more about [url="http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/059.html"]Split Infinitives and Star Trek here[/url].

Time to call it a night here.

MountainHiker

Using a subjunctive and an independent clause

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