Use of 'where' and 'which' in attributive clauses

Question

Hello,

Newbie to this forum. I teach Oral English at a High School in China, and would appreciate anyone giving me information regarding the proper use and differences between the use of 'where' and 'which' in attributive (adjective) clauses.

TIA

Chris

Paco2004 · Accepted Answer

Hello

I'm an English learner and I don't know much about English.
But let me try to answer to your question.

(1) The house is old + I live there (=in the house).
The house in which I live is old.
The house where I live is old.

(2) I live in a house + The house is old.
I live in a house which is old. (o)

You cannot make a "where"-clause for (2),
because "where"(an adverb) cannot be a subject of a clause.
I live in a house where is old. (x)

Get it?

Mister Micawber · Answer

Hi Chris,

Welcome to English Forums.

There is generally a considerable range of choices in using the 'wh'-relatives (and 'that') in relative clauses, based mostly on levels of formality.

A couple of pointers:

'Where' is an option primarily in adverbials of place, situation, condition. It is usually a synonymous alternative to a preposition + 'which': 'this is the station where/at which I get off'. Often, the preposition + 'which' form is too formal for the circumstances, and that is a good time to opt for 'where'.

On the other hand, if the referent noun is less obviously a place, 'where' may sound slightly awkward, and the writer may wish to opt for 'which' or prep + 'which': X 'the chapter where it discusses Titan is interesting' / 'the chapter in which it discusses Titan is interesting'.

Hope this helps.

Cmknight · Answer

Thank you to both Mister Micawber and paco for your replies. I'll pass this info on to the student that asked me. Attributive clauses were called "adjective clauses" back when I went to school. I've found that they are one of the hardest parts of English, especially for Chinese students, to learn.

Just a couple of general questions, here. Has anyone else ever had the displeasure of learning about teachers changing English rules when they find they don't like or understand the set, written ones? Or teachers exclaiming that they don't care if sentence structure is correct when the students have to fill in the blanks on 'practice' sentences? I've had the first one twice since I've been here, and the second one was told to me by our school's head English teacher yesterday. I was also informed that they don't teach the kids "English"...they teach them "Chinese English". (sounds like an idea for a new thread )

Frustrating!

Chris

Mister Micawber · Answer

Chris, this a can of worms that you're opening-- but this is rich soil for them, as you will see by perusing some of our threads.

Many teachers are unaware of fundamental grammar; many grammars are fundamentally wrong; many grammar points may be specious analyses of the language, yet be effective for learning and acquisition.

I don't know the structure of Chinese English-language education. In institutional settings in Japan, grammar and structure is strictly the purview of JTs (Japanese teachers of English) where native speakers (ALTs - assistant language teachers) are jobbed in to practice oral English. In some institutions this works well and in others it does not: much depends on the rapport and understanding among the individual teachers and their schools, how they see the language, and their goals for their students.

This just means that I cannot comment on your experiences because I cannot judge who among the participants was more realistic or helpful. There are good pedagogical reasons to 'take a break' from structured grammar when teaching English, oral or otherwise; there are good reasons to inject a little grammar into English conversation classes. Finding the balance for optimal language acquisition is an ongoing challenge.

Komountain · Answer

Picking up the original thread, I'd like to add one more thing.

[preposition + 'which' clause] can sometimes be rewritten as [preposition 'which' to V]

That is, you can change [a house in which I will live] to [a house in which to live].

However, as far as I know, [a house where I will live] cannot be changed to [a house where to live]. In other words, 'in which' found in [a house in which to live] cannot be replaced with 'where,' though they are interchangeable in other sentence formations.

Likewise, [a seat from which to better see the stage] cannot be rephrased as [a seat where to better see the stage].

Please note: where's used here are not interrogatives, but relative adverbs.

Use of 'where' and 'which' in attributive clauses

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions