usage of would

Question

I'd appreciate it if someone could explain the difference in tense between these two:

It's literally inconceivable to me that anyone, anywhere wouldn't want universal health care.

It's literally inconceivable to me that anyone, anywhere doesn't want universal health care.

Is the usage of "wouldn't" in the first sentence correct, assuming the sentence is referring to a present tense notion?

Thanks

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Pooyan-
1. It's literally inconceivable to me that anyone, anywhere wouldn't want universal health care.
2. It's literally inconceivable to me that anyone, anywhere doesn't want universal health care.

The first sentence is certainly correct. The second sentence is a little odd, given "literally inconceivable". would is a big headache, isn't it?

When a speaker uses "would", he moves into a different world -- the world of the imagination.

It's literally inconceivable ~ I absolutely cannot imagine.

So when you begin with a phrase that means you're imagining something - just imagining - not even claiming it's true - you typically use 'would'.

If you are claiming it's true in the real world, you don't use 'would'.

No one wants universal health care. (You are claiming that it's true. You know it's true.)

I can't believe that anyone wouldn't want universal health care. (You are imagining a situation where there is someone who doesn't want universal health care, and you're saying that you can't believe there is such a person. You believe that everyone would want universal health care. Everyone wants health care in the world that you imagine.)

Note that the two are different.

CJ

Pooyan · Answer

Thanks CalifJim as usual.

In these two sentences:

"I believe that everyone wants universal health care"

and

"I believe that everyone would want universal health care"

can we say that in the first sentence, the speaker strongly believes that everyone wants the universal health care, but in the second sentence there is some uncertainty. The speaker think that people will probably accept the universal health care?

CalifJim · Answer

Pooyan"I believe that everyone wants universal health care"and "I believe that everyone would want universal health care" can we say that in the first sentence, the speaker strongly believes that everyone wants the universal health care, but in the second sentence there is some uncertainty.

Not exactly. The strength of the belief is the same. The speaker doesn't believe any more strongly in the first case than in the second. In both cases the speaker believes something.

1. In the first case he believes "Everyone wants universal health care".
2. In the second case he believes "Everyone would want universal health care".

So the difference is found between "wants" and "would want" - not in the word "believes".

1. The speaker believes that in the real world, if you ask everybody the same question - "Do you want universal health care?" - everybody will answer "Yes".
(We know from our experience of the real world that many people don't want universal health care, so this is not a very realistic belief, but that doesn't matter. Even if the speaker is not well informed, he still believes what he believes.)

2. The speaker believes that there is some (imaginary) arrangement of situations in the world that would cause everybody to answer "Yes" to that question.

So it amounts to "conditions" in the second case. If the world were different from what it is, everybody would want universal health care. The speaker hasn't said how the world might have to be different, but that doesn't matter. We know from his use of "would" that he is imagining a world where different conditions apply. That's why we so often see an if-clause together with a clause with "would".

Everybody would want universal health care if it were affordable.
Everybody would want universal health care if it were truly fair to everyone.
Everybody would want universal health care if it were easily available everywhere.

Any or all of these things might have been in the mind of the speaker when he said "Everybody would want universal health care".

CJ

Pooyan · Answer

Thanks for the detailed response. One more question:

Does the difference between "wants" and "would want" apply in if-clauses as well:

"I believe If someone wants health care system . . . "

"I believe If someone would want health care system . . . "

This is also an imaginary situation, but as far as I know 'would' is not usually recommended in if-clauses

CalifJim · Answer

PooyanDoes the difference between "wants" and "would want" apply in if-clauses as well ... 'would' is not usually recommended in if-clauses

The if-clause and the would-clause are two separate clauses. Don't try to combine these two things by putting 'would' in an if-clause.

If you would want a health care system ... is not correct English.

Start one clause with if, and use would in the other clause.

If I had a million dollars, I would buy a big house.

CJ

RandomGuy · Answer

CalifJimThe if-clause and the would-clause are two separate clauses. Don't try to combine these two things by putting 'would' in an if-clause.

I would appreciate it if you would turn down your radio.

Could this be an exception, CJ?

CalifJim · Answer

Aspara GusCould this be an exception, CJ?

It depends how you look at it. I don't call it an exception. It's an exception to the main rule, but I call it an example of a "sub-rule", the whole class of sentences with "bargaining" or "reciprocal" would (or will). Two woulds or wills. Exchange of favors. (Appreciation isn't exactly a favor, but it fits in this class of sentences.)

If you would buy me a beer, I would buy you a pizza. (Also with will.)

CJ

Pooyan · Answer

How about the difference between these two:

If you would buy me a beer, I would buy you a pizza.

If you bought me a beer, I would buy you a pizza.

CalifJim · Answer

PooyanHow about the difference between these two:

If you would buy me a beer, I would buy you a pizza.

If you bought me a beer, I would buy you a pizza.

Nearly the same meaning. In the first one there is more reference to the other person's willingness to buy the beer, as in "If you were willing to buy me a beer". In the second one, it's a matter of "If it happened that you bought me a beer".

CJ

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