UNTIL + PAST PERFECT

Question

Dear teachers,in the previous threads, some teachers told me past perfect cannot be used with UNTIL NOW, but now I see it is ued so in the on-line USA TODAY:Until now, Jones had been steadfast in doping denialsBy Dick Patrick, USA TODAYShe said it loudly and for a long time. Marion Jones was as aggressive as any athlete in denying the use of performance-enhancing drugs. The greater the controversy, the more emphatic her denials.She dared the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency to charge her in 2004, after the BALCO steroid scandal, and suggested they back off if they did not. She boasted she had never failed a test.I am confused.Could you explain why it is used here? What does "UNTIL NOW,JONES HAD BEEN STEADFST IN DOPING DENIALS" mean?Is Past perfect here is wrongly used ?Thank you in advance

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

UNTIL NOW, JONES HAD BEEN STEADFAST IN DOPING DENIALS>> It is correct. It means that moments ago (a point in past time), she finally admitted to doping. Before that, she had always denied that she was using drugs. It is the same grammatical construction as "Until 2007, he had been living in New York"

CalifJim · Answer

It isa bit confusing. I think there are a few different things for you to learn before it makes sense, so you may have to be patient.

_____

1. You can use until with the past perfect. It's a backshift of until with the present perfect, like this:
Imagine that it is Thursday today. Today you say:
Until today, Larry has never gone to a museum.
Next week, looking back on the previous Thursday, you say:
Until last Thursday, Larry had never gone to a museum.
Keep this in mind.
_____

2. now does not always mean "at this moment when I am speaking". now can mean "at this point in the story". Here's an example:

Helen's car broke down on Tuesday. Now (=on Tuesday=at this point in the story) she was stuck. Now (=on Tuesday=at this point in the story) she had no way to get home.
Keep this in mind.
____
3. You can combine the two points above like this.
Suppose that Helen never had any trouble with her car, but it broke down on Tuesday.
Helen's car broke down on Tuesday. Until now (=until Tuesday=until this point in the story) she had never had any trouble with her car.
Here, now doesn't mean "at this moment when I am speaking", so until now means until Tuesday.
_____________

With these things in mind, let's turn to your example.
I looked up the article. The article contains this, later:
Friday afternoon, she pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about her use of banned drugs from 1999 to 2001.
So now in the headline means last Friday -- the Friday preceding the writing of the article.
Here's the full thought:
Jones pleaded guilty to lying on Friday. Until now (=until last Friday=until this point in the story), she had been steadfast in doping denials.

Compare:
Helen's car broke down on Tuesday. Until now (=until Tuesday=until this point in the story), she had never had any trouble with her car.

CJ

Tuongvan · Answer

Thank you Califjim very much for taking the trouble to help me.But how about this one:

Situation: Mr.A lives in the USA, but his father and mother live in Viertnam. Mr.A wanted to come back to Vietnam to visit his parents, but he had not enough money to do that.Therefore, he had to save money for his trip back to Vietnam.He has been saving money for nearly three years and now he has enough money to realize his dream of flying to Vietnam to visit his parents.

Today when Mr.A arrives in Vietnam and meets his parents face to face at their home in Vietnam he embraces his father and mother, saying :
" Dear parents, I was supposed to come back here to visit you a long time ago, but I couldn't because I did not have enough money then. Therefore, until today, I had been unable to visit you.Don't be angry with me."

" Dear parents, I was supposed to come back here to visit you a long time ago, but I couldn't because I did not have enough money then. Therefore, until today, I was unable to visit you.Don't be angry with me."

" Dear parents, I was supposed to come back here to visit you a long time ago, but I couldn't because I did not have enough money then. Therefore, until today, I havebeen unable to visit you.Don't be angry with me."
Which of the above sentences is correct?

Monalisatuan · Answer

Hi Tuonvan,

Situation: Mr.A lives in the USA, but his father and mother live in Viertnam. Mr.A wanted to come back to Vietnam to visit his parents, but he had not enough money to do that.Therefore, he had to save money for his trip back to Vietnam.He has been saving money for nearly three years and now he has enough money to realize his dream of flying to Vietnam to visit his parents.

Today when Mr.A arrives in Vietnam and meets his parents face to face at their home in Vietnam he embraces his father and mother, saying :
" Dear parents, I was supposed to come back here to visit you a long time ago, but I couldn't because I did not have enough money then. Therefore, until today, I was unable to visit you.Don't be angry with me." correct

When a negative stament (especially in the simple past) is used with until now, it normally emphasizes that the statement does not take place before the time referred to

Consider this:
I did not know he was Mr. B's son until now=I know he is Mr.B's son now, but in the past I didn't know he was Mr.B's son
Similarly, we have:Until now, I was unable to visit you=I am able to visit you now(evidence:I am standing here in your house embracing you), but in the past I couldn't because I lacked money.

Hopefully these explanations would help clarify things
Best wishes

CalifJim · Answer

Question:

TuongvanWhich of the above sentences is correct?

Answer:

TuongvanTherefore, until today, I have been unable to visit you.

But people also say:

TuongvanTherefore, until today, I was unable to visit you.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hi,
Does that mean this is wrong?

one sentence Tuongvan wrote::
Therefore, until today, I was unable to to visit you.

Anonymous · Answer

(Until now, Jones had been steadfast in doping denials) this sentense is not correct

we use the present perfect because the verb happend in the past and it disponible until now

the correction (jones has beensteadfast in doping denaias

i hope tha you verry understand

UNTIL + PAST PERFECT

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