understanding why use this particular tense

Question

I have this dialogue between A and B and want to ask you for help in understanding why the writer used the tense as he did.

A: Hi, isn't it supposed (not, isn't it suppose) to be very sunny tomorrow?

B: I hadn't heard (not, haven't heard) that. It is news for me.

A: I know for sure that a weather forecaster in the news last night said it is supposed (not, it is suppose) to be sunny.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

There are a few idiomatic uses of the past perfect where present perfect might be expected.

I hadn't heard that and I hadn't thought of that are two of them.

CJ

Pastsimple · Answer

CalifJimThere are a few idiomatic uses of the past perfect where present perfect might be expected.

I hadn't heard that and I hadn't thought of that are two of them.

CJ

Is it really 100% idiomatic usage?

A: Hi, isn't it supposed (not, isn't it suppose) to be very sunny tomorrow?

B: I hadn't heard (not, haven't heard) that. It is news for me.

A: I know for sure that a weather forecaster in the news last night said it is supposed (not, it is suppose) to be sunny.

Let's look at it from B's perspective at the time when he/she was about to utter his/her words:

PAST PRESENT

A's statement about sunny weather B's response

B doesn't know yet B already knows --------------------------------------------------------------------->

Since A's statement about sunny weather is in the past (though it is a very recent past), B didn't hear about sunny weather in the past before past, therefore the past perfect tense.

P.S. I wanted to post similar question about the past perfect some time ago, along with this "explanation".

CalifJim · Answer

100%?

I don't know. How about 50%?

-- Isn't it supposed to be sunny tomorrow?
-- I haven't heard the weather report yet, so I don't know. (??? I hadn't heard the weather report ...)

-- Wasn't it supposed to be sunny yesterday?
-- I hadn't heard the weather report before that, so I didn't know.

-- Have you heard that it's going to be sunny tomorrow? (???Had you heard that ...)
-- No, I haven't heard. (??? No, I hadn't heard.)

What if "Isn't it supposed to be sunny tomorrow" is taken to mean "I heard it is supposed to be sunny tomorrow". Then the following should make sense:

-- Isn't it supposed to be sunny tomorrow? (= I heard ...)
-- I didn't hear that.

And if it is taken to mean "I had heard it is supposed to be sunny tomorrow", then the following should make sense:

-- Isn't it supposed to be sunny tomorrow? (= I had heard ...)
-- I hadn't heard that.

But do either of these make sense? And to what extent?

I don't sense there is anything in "Isn't it supposed to be sunny tomorrow?" that establishes a past point of view, so likewise, I find it hard to wrap my brain around the idea that hadn't heard is a past of a past in this context. I'm inclined to think that the normal use of the past perfect is in the context of a past point of view, and when it is used in some other context regularly, I call it an idiomatic usage.

Yet, upon rereading your post, I see that "I hadn't heard that" says (to you, anyway), "I hadn't heard that until the time that you (just) asked me -- when I inferred from your question that someone (had) said it was supposed to be sunny tomorrow" or, more briefly, "I hadn't heard that before you mentioned it." Hmmm. I still think it's a stretch. Maybe others will weigh in on it.

CJ

Pastsimple · Answer

CalifJim100%?

Yet, upon rereading your post, I see that "I hadn't heard that" says (to you, anyway), "I hadn't heard that until the time that you (just) asked me -- when I inferred from your question that someone (had) said it was supposed to be sunny tomorrow" or, more briefly, "I hadn't heard that before you mentioned it." Hmmm. I still think it's a stretch. Maybe others will weigh in on it.

Exactly. That was my interpretation of the minidialogue between A and B.

Anyway, if I were person B in the minidialogue and responded with I haven't heard that, would it sound odd? I think it is a correct response.

CalifJim · Answer

My first reaction (LOL!) was yes, haven't heard sounds odd!
But that's because I've been incessantly repeating hadn't heardwhile working on this thread!

Actually, haven't heard is not odd, and hadn't heard is not odd either. Even didn't hear is possible. I think hadn't heard is probably more commonly used in this context, though.

CJ

understanding why use this particular tense

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions