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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
Ukrainian place-names in English
I've got the impression from BBC coverage of the fun and games in the Ukraine of a certain degree of disarray on the English names of Ukrainian cities.
Common English usage in the past has been 'Kiev' and 'Lvov', in each case based on the Russian word; the BBC seems to use 'Kiev' and 'Lviv' - the latter derived from the Ukrainian word.
Is this Holy Writ from the Pronunciation Unit, or are the news guys busking it?
(From
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/europe/ukraine/cities.htm
which gives the names of Ukrainian cities in both Ukrainian and Russian, as well as in English, I gather that, beyond the choice of language, there are transliteration alternatives. The page gives 'Kyyiv' and 'L'viv'.
I'm not sure whether these are according to some general standard - roughly equivalent to Wade-Phillips or Pinyin for Chinese - or not.)
English place-name equivalents tend to be freighted with ideology: post-colonial liberal guilt dictates that Bombay and Madras be jettisoned for the grotesquely unidiomatic (in non-Indian English) Mumbai and Chennai - no comparable move towards embracing Köln or Firenze that I've noticed!
Thus, it occurs to me that the post-Hutton brown trouser brigade at Broadcasting House decided to use a mixture of Ukrainian and Russian forms in order to deflect allegations of bias towards one party to the conflict.
Common English usage in the past has been 'Kiev' and 'Lvov', in each case based on the Russian word; the BBC seems to use 'Kiev' and 'Lviv' - the latter derived from the Ukrainian word.
Is this Holy Writ from the Pronunciation Unit, or are the news guys busking it?
(From
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/europe/ukraine/cities.htm
which gives the names of Ukrainian cities in both Ukrainian and Russian, as well as in English, I gather that, beyond the choice of language, there are transliteration alternatives. The page gives 'Kyyiv' and 'L'viv'.
I'm not sure whether these are according to some general standard - roughly equivalent to Wade-Phillips or Pinyin for Chinese - or not.)
English place-name equivalents tend to be freighted with ideology: post-colonial liberal guilt dictates that Bombay and Madras be jettisoned for the grotesquely unidiomatic (in non-Indian English) Mumbai and Chennai - no comparable move towards embracing Köln or Firenze that I've noticed!
Thus, it occurs to me that the post-Hutton brown trouser brigade at Broadcasting House decided to use a mixture of Ukrainian and Russian forms in order to deflect allegations of bias towards one party to the conflict.
Top answer
[/nq] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. ", part of which reads: ** In 1995, the Ukrainian government made a declaration concerning English-language usage of the name of the city, favoring the use of Kyiv over Kiev. This act has legal jurisdiction only over Ukrainian government spelling of the city's name.
- [/nq] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day.
- ", part of which reads: ** In 1995, the Ukrainian government made a declaration concerning English-language usage of the name of the city, favoring the use of Kyiv over Kiev.
- This act has legal jurisdiction only over Ukrainian government spelling of the city's name.
- It says in part: 1.
- To acknowledge that the Roman spelling of Kiev does notrecreate the phonetic and scriptural features of the Ukrainian language geographical name.
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5 Answers
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[nq:1]I've got the impression from BBC coverage of the fun and games in the Ukraine of a certain degree of disarray on the English names of Ukrainian cities.[/nq]
I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or Kyiv?", part of which reads:
** In 1995, the Ukrainian government made a declaration concerning English-language usage of the
I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or Kyiv?", part of which reads:
** In 1995, the Ukrainian government made a declaration concerning English-language usage of the
00
[nq:2]I've got the impression from BBC coverage of the fun ... degree of disarray on the English names of Ukrainian cities.[/nq]
[nq:1] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or Kyiv?", part of which reads:[/nq]
The CBC is using "Kyiv", whereas most other Western media is using "Kiev".
Google
"Kiev" 8,640
"Kyiv" 813
[nq:1] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or Kyiv?", part of which reads:[/nq]
The CBC is using "Kyiv", whereas most other Western media is using "Kiev".
"Kiev" 8,640
"Kyiv" 813
00
[nq:1]I've got the impression from BBC coverage of the fun and games in the Ukraine of a certain degree of ... a mixture of Ukrainian and Russian forms in order to deflect allegations of bias towards one party to the conflict.[/nq]
I wondered about 'L'viv' while listening to Today this morning.
Let's just hope, as the guy said it on the prog, that the crisis can be resolved, and all p
I wondered about 'L'viv' while listening to Today this morning.
Let's just hope, as the guy said it on the prog, that the crisis can be resolved, and all p
00
[nq:2]I've got the impression from BBC coverage of the fun ... degree of disarray on the English names of Ukrainian cities.[/nq]
[nq:1] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or ... for Legal Terminology, determine as mandatory the standardized Roman-letter spelling of Kyiv for use in legislative and official acts. **[/nq]
Interestin
[nq:1] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, the other day. I has a section entitled "Kiev or ... for Legal Terminology, determine as mandatory the standardized Roman-letter spelling of Kyiv for use in legislative and official acts. **[/nq]
Interestin
00
[nq:2] I happened to read the Wikipedia article on Kiev, ... of Kyiv for use in legislative and official acts. **[/nq]
[nq:1]Interesting, but it doesn't really tell me how to pronounce it. Are they certain it's not pronounced 'kyiff'?Yippy Kyiv.[/nq]
Ray
[nq:1]Interesting, but it doesn't really tell me how to pronounce it. Are they certain it's not pronounced 'kyiff'?Yippy Kyiv.[/nq]
Ray
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