Two subjects: one alive, one dead...

Question

If a sentence refers to a live person it would be "He is noted
for...." If it refers to a dead person it would be "He was noted
for...."

However, if two people are involved, one dead and one alive, what
should it be?

"They are both noted for" or "they were both noted for...?"

Avangi · Accepted Answer

Hi El Viejo. Welcome to English Forums!

My opinion is not necessarily authoritative on this, but for myself I feel confident that either tense may be used to describe the noteworthiness of a deceased person. I would definitely not use past tense for the living or for the combination.

Best wishes, - A. (Bet I'm older than you!)

CalifJim · Answer

Welcome to English Forums!

El ViejoIf a sentence refers to a live person it would be "He is noted
for.." If it refers to a dead person it would be "He was noted
for.."

This is not true in general.
Shakespeare is (still) noted for his plays, even today. [dead]

In the 1960's, Paul McCartney was noted for being a member of the Beatles. [alive]

CJ

Avangi · Answer

CalifJim In the 1960's, Paul McCartney was noted for being a member of the Beatles. [alive]

Hi Jim, I'm just having a tense problem.

Can we say, "Paul is noted for being a member of the Beatles," or must we say, "Paul is noted for having been a member of the Beatles"?

Can we say, "In the 1960's recording of Yesterday, Paul is not playing bass," or must we say " - - - was not playing bass"?

It sometimes seems like noteworthiness is as eternal as being recorded, unless you wish to make the point that someone has outlived his reputation, as Richard Strauss famously did. In his lifetime Nicola Tesla was as famous an inventor as his competitor Thomas Edison, but today only Edison is "noted."

Would it be fair to say that the tense applies to the alleged noteworthiness rather than to the alleged accomplishments?

Best regards, - A.

CalifJim · Answer

AvangiCan we say, "Paul is noted for being a member of the Beatles," or must we say, "Paul is noted for having been a member of the Beatles"?

The second, I'd say, but this is nit-picking. Neither would raise an eyebrow in most circles.

AvangiCan we say, "In the 1960's recording of Yesterday, Paul is not playing bass," or must we say " - - - was not playing bass"?

Yes, you can use is. It's typical in discussing works of art to use the present.
Melville likes to write about whaling ships and the sea.
I think one of the forum members used the term "critical present" for this.

AvangiWould it be fair to say that the tense applies to the alleged noteworthiness rather than to the alleged accomplishments?

I'm afraid I'm not following this.

CJ

Avangi · Answer

Thanks for the reply, CJ. Sorry about the nit-picking. I often guess wrong about which are the worthy subjects for that favorite monkey-passtime.

I like the Melville example!

Re my last question, I'm thinking there are two "actions" in these sentences which have tense considerations - the being noted, and the noteworthy action, or what the person is being noted for. One can stop being noted for a truly great past accomplishment. I suppose if it's proved that Francis Bacon wrote "the complete works of Shakespeare," both could change. I was wondering if one may generalize that in sentences, "He is/was noted for X," the tense must be determined by "noted" and not by "X." It doesn't always seem so.

- A.

CalifJim · Answer

Yes, I think you're right. I hadn't really thought about it.
Mr. A was noted for ... indicates People found Mr. A worth noting (then) for ...
Mr. A is noted for ... indicates People find Mr. A worth noting (now) for ...
And the part after for, omitting the cases with nouns, should technically be just the -ing if the noteworthy element is contemporaneous with the noting, and having -en if the noteworthy element is anterior to the noting. That gives (thanks to combinatorial mathematics!) four possibilities.

... is noted for singing ...
... is noted for having sung ...
... was noted for singing ...
... was noted for having sung ...
Whether anybody pays very close attention to these niceties is an open question!

CJ

Avangi · Answer

Very good summary.  Thank you, sir.

Two subjects: one alive, one dead...

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