Try to do and try doing

Question

Hi there. I've got some troubles comprehending that. My grammar book says: try to do = attempt to do, make an effort, try doing =do something as an experiment or test.

I tried to keep my eyes open.
The car did not seem to be working, so I tried checking engine but in vain.

What's the difference between them? For me the difference between "do an experiment" and "to attempt to do" is rather vague. Could anyone explain me that? Thanks in advance.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

FandorinWhat's the difference between them?

When you try to do something, you make an effort to do it. It may be difficult, so you may have to expend energy in the attempt to do it. When you try to do something, you may succeed, or you may fail.

I tried to lift the heavy box.
I tried to find my lost keys.
I tried to see over the fence by standing on tiptoe.
I tried to touch the ceiling by jumping as high as I could.
I tried to open the package without tearing the beautiful gift wrap.
___

When you try doing something, you do it with the intention of finding out what will happen when you do it. When you try doing something, you succeed. Your purpose was not to see if you would succeed or fail, but to see if your doing it advanced your cause, helped you to make some progress, or solved your problem. When you try doing something, you are trying to solve a problem.

The door was stuck shut, so I tried shaking the doorknob (to see if that would open it).
The door was still stuck shut, so I tried hitting it with a hammer (to see if that would open it).
The door was still stuck shut, so I tried prying it open with a crowbar (to see if that would open it).

The paper was on fire, so I tried smothering the flames with a blanket.
The paper was still on fire, so I tried pouring water on it.

-- The TV isn't working.
-- Try plugging it in!!!

-- The boss is being mean.
-- Try smiling at him more.

-- This coffee is too hot.
-- Try putting some ice in it.
___

Note the difference:

The policeman tried to catch the thief by running after him.
To catch the thief the policeman tried running after him.

CJ

Fandorin · Answer

Thank you CalifJim so much! [Y] It's such a gorgeous explanation! Would you mind checking these?

Sue needed to borrow some money. She tried asking (to see what would happen eventually or lead to) or to ask (she attempted and failed) Gerry, but he was short of money too. Are both of them possible or just Ving form?

I tried reaching (just to see if I can) or to reach (to get some tea) the shelf, but I wasn't tall enough.

CalifJimNote the difference:

The policeman tried to catch the thief by running after him. He run after him and indeed he guessed the run was the best choice and that he should attempt to do it, didn't he?
To catch the thief the policeman tried running after him. He made an attempt to see what it led to and he run after him just as an experiment but with intention to catch him, didn't he?

CalifJim · Answer

These are your situations:

She needed to borrow money, so she tried asking* Gerry. (*not to ask)

(Failure to ask is very doubtful unless she has just had oral surgery and finds speaking very difficult.)
(Asking is a course of action worth trying. Maybe she'll get the money she needs.)

And:

I tried to reach* the top shelf to get some tea, but I wasn't tall enough. (*not reaching)

(Failure to reach is not only possible, but not being tall enough ensures it.)

This one is a bit tricky. I think some speakers would accept tried reachinghere. Unfortunately for the learner, native speakers do not always hold strictly to the distinctions given in your textbook.

_________

The policeman tried to catch the thief by running after him. He ~~run~~ ran after him and indeed he guessed the run was the best choice and that he should attempt to do it, didn't he?
To catch the thief the policeman tried running after him. He made an attempt to see what it led to and he run after him just as an experiment but with intention to catch him, didn't he?

In both cases, running was a means to catching; running was done for the purpose of catching. The main difference is this. In the first case, the policeman could have failed to catch the thief. In the second case, the policeman could not have failed to run. Therefore, he "tried to catch (by running)" and he "tried running in order to catch".

The same contrast happens here:

I tried to open the door by shaking the doorknob.
I tried shaking the doorknob [in order to open / to open / as a way of opening] the door.

Whether the door can be opened is in doubt, not whether I can shake the doorknob.

And here:

The boaters tried to avoid the rocks by rowing toward the shore.
The boaters tried rowing toward the shore [ in order to avoid / to avoid / as a way of avoiding] the rocks.

And here:

The rescue team tried to save the drowning man by throwing him a rope.
The rescue team tried throwing a rope to the drowning man [in order to save / to save / as a way of saving] him.
___

Again there is this complication: In the first statement of each of the pairs above, some speakers might accept the -ing form, but they will probably be less likely to accept the to form in the second of each pair.
___

Is it getting clearer?

CJ

Fandorin · Answer

Yeah, I hope so, CalifJim. It's really complicated and puts me on the spot

.But it is getting clearer. I suppose it will take time to get it. Thank you very much

I couldn't have received better explanations.

Fandorin · Answer

I tried to start engine but it refused to work. (I apply an attempt to do it but it was useless)

I tried to keep my eyes close.

I tried keeping my eyes close to feel a tender touch of the wind.

I tried starting engine so that I can see whether it works or not. (to see in what it would turn)\

I tried pretending as if I were more young than the girl was sitting beside me.

I tried to avoid doing such a horrible thing.

Are the explanations required in this case?

If I say just I tried starting engine in order /I tried to start engine it doesn't make much sense and therefore it could be diffucult to judge about using one or another form, does it?

CalifJim · Answer

I tried to start the engine but it refused to work. (I ~~apply an~~ attempted to do it, but it was useless)

I tried to keep my eyes closed.

I tried keeping my eyes closed to feel a tender touch of the wind.

I tried starting the engine so that I ~~can~~ could see whether it works or not. ~~(to see in what it would turn)~~\

I tried pretending ~~as if I were more young~~ I was younger than the girl ~~was~~ sitting beside me.

I tried to avoid doing such a horrible thing.

All OK as corrected.
____

If I say just ~~I tried starting the engine in order~~ /I tried to start the engine, it doesn't make much sense and therefore it could be diffucult (difficult) to judge about using one or another form, ~~does it~~ couldn't it?

In many cases either the -ing form or the to form is possible. A speaker can say I tried starting the engine or I tried to start the engine. Only the speaker knows what is in his mind. In the first case, the listener may assume that starting the engine is not the ultimate goal, but that starting the engine is a means for reaching some other goal. In the second case, the listener will probably assume that once the engine is started, it's the end of the story.

You can't judge whether to use one form or another until you are clear about what is in your mind. In examples and posts we can add words to suggest which form is more appropriate, but in "real life" people do not explain everything in so much detail.

CJ

Fandorin · Answer

Thank you CJ, it really make sense. I think i get it. I'm embarrassed about many absurd mistakes I made here.

CalifJim
I tried starting the engine so that I ~~can~~ could see whether it works or not. ~~(to see in what it would turn)~~\

We use "could" here because of sequence of tenses?

Anonymous · Answer

Hi CalifJim,
Thank you for your explanation. You make learning English very interesting.

Anonymous · Answer

It's never too late to write a "thank you" letter, isn't it? You gave a fantastic explanation on that verb pattern. Could I book you straight from California to be my teacher of English? )) Have a great day, Jim!

CalifJim · Answer

I'm glad that you found my explanation useful!

CJ

Try to do and try doing

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