Too revisited

Question

Which is correct: 1-Harry is too smart to get the better of. 2-Harry is too smart to get the better of him. (meaning: Harry is too smart for me/us/anybody to get the better of him).

MountainHiker · Accepted Answer

Azz,

One is definitely incorrect.

Two doesn't make much sense to me.

Using GuruNet.....
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get the better of

Also, get the best of; have the better or best of. Become superior to or master someone or something; win out. For example, John's common sense got the better of his pride, and he apologized, or Her older sister was always trying to get the best of her, or He was determined to have the better of his competitors. [c. 1600] Also see get the drop on.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer. Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
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Let's look at 2 in more detail.

Harry is too smart to get the better of him.

Let's use "Joe" for him.

1) Harry is too smart to get the better of Joe.
2) Harry is too smart to become superior to Joe? Does that make sense?

I think your sentence ought to read....

3) Harry is too stupid to get the better of Joe.
4) Harry is too stupid to become superior to Joe. In other words, try as he might, Harry simply doesn't measure up to Joe.

Or, You could say, Harry is too smart to get the better of Joe. Because if he does, he knows that Joe will surprise him later and pay him back with some form of retribution.

That's how I read it. Maybe others will have a different opinion.

Azz · Answer

Thank you MountianHiker, but that was not what I meant.

This cake is too big to eat in one sitting.
That is too much to ask.
This coat is too expensive to buy.
This coat is too delicate to wear in these rough conditions.

Harry is too for you to fool.
Harry is too smart to fool.

1-Harry is too smart for you to get the better of.
2-Harry is too smart to get the better of.

When I added "him", it was supposed to represent Harry.

Maybe all the sentences are wrong. I don't know, or else I wouldn't have asked the question. What do you think?

MountainHiker · Answer

Hey there Azz,

Let's tackle each of these sentences in order.

1) This cake is too big to eat in one sitting. - ok

2) That is too much to ask. - ok

3) This coat is too expensive to buy. - ok

4) This coat is too delicate to wear in these rough conditions. - ok

5) Harry is too (smart?) for you to fool. - ok

6) Harry is too smart to fool. - ok

7) Harry is too smart for you to get the better of. - I think it is ok

Recall we said that...

Using GuruNet.....
~~~~~~~
"get the better of" (idiom)

Also, get the best of; have the better or best of. Become superior to or master someone or something; win out. For example, John's common sense got the better of his pride, and he apologized, or Her older sister was always trying to get the best of her, or He was determined to have the better of his competitors. [c. 1600] Also see get the drop on.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer. Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
~~~~~~~~

I personally would prefer (7) to be written as....

7a) Harry is too smart for you to get the better of him.

8) Harry is too smart to get the better of. I *** this is okay too

I would probably say (eight) as...(oddly[8]is a musical note...wish we could turn off the emoticons)

8a) It's impossible to get the better of Harry because he's too darn smart.

Others might have some different opinions. Idioms can be tricky because they depend upon how you understand them in your regional setting. So if you say an idiom a certain way, it might sound odd to me where I am from, but it sounds natural to you because it is used commonly in that context where you reside.

Hope that helps.

Miriam · Answer

Hello, azz

Smile! All of your sentences are correct.
Your first two sentences were:
a) "Harry is too smart to get the better of."
This sentence is correct, there is nothing wrong with it and its meaning is clear.

And

b) "Harry is too smart to get the better of him"
This is also correct, and can be used to mean exactly the same as a). Both sentences are correct. The pronoun ("him") in the infinitive clause may be omitted if it substitutes for the subject of the main clause ("Harry").
If you use "him" at the end and the only man involved is Harry, then it will obviously refer to him.

Suppose your sentence were:
"The grass is too short to cut."
In that case, you don't need to add "it" at the end of the sentence, it is understood that "the grass is too short for me to cut it", or simply "too short to be cut" or even "to need cutting".

You also posted:
This cake is too big to eat in one sitting.
That is too much to ask.
This coat is too expensive to buy.
This coat is too delicate to wear in these rough conditions.

Harry is too smart for you to fool.
Harry is too smart to fool.

1-Harry is too smart for you to get the better of.
2-Harry is too smart to get the better of.

All of the above sentences are correct.

You said: "When I added 'him', it was supposed to represent Harry."
And it does represent Harry. As I said before, if Harry is the only "he" involved, you can either use the pronoun or drop it and the meaning of the sentence will not change.

A comment about sentences of the type "Harry is too smart to fool":
The infinitive (in this case "to fool") may be "passive" in meaning (i.e. "to be fooled").

I hope this will help to make things a bit more clear.

Miriam

P.S. I'm also posting to your thread "One more too".

Too revisited

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