Tone contour

Question

Hi. How would you, as a native speaker, represent the tone contour for don't in each of the following sentences using a 5 level scheme:

I don’t think so. 55

Don’t? 35

Don’t you think? 21

Don’t. 51

Please advise if the tone numbers I try to assign as above acceptable. I'm trying to use above to distinguish the four tones in Chnese language. I'm not sure if it is workable. I'll appreciate if anyone can help.

Regards

Avangi · Accepted Answer

AnonymousI don’t think so. 55 could be 55; could be 22, could be 33, with slightly different implications
Don’t? 35 could be 35, 24, 15, depending on meaning. With us, the tone is more a tool to change the inference.

Don’t you think? 21 or 32 or 31 or 33 - as long as you leave room for the "think" to be higher ("think" could rise or fall, but either the beginning or the ending would be higher than any part of the "don't)

Don’t. 51 or 41 or 31 assuming by "tone" you mean "pitch" over an octave or so

New2grammar · Answer

Avangi, could you explain the rules of this game? I don't want to feel left out. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Avangi · Answer

Hey, Buddy, I'm just wingin' it. I've never played before either, but as a musician I have a perverted interest in pitch and tone.

I'm assuming as you sing up through the "notes" of your speaking voice, we divide them into five levels, "5" being highest. Even though "don't" has only one syllable, you can change pitch while you're saying it, rising, falling or staying the same. 33 would be middle range, neither rising nor falling.

New2grammar · Answer

I see. Could you tell me about the tones you replied to the poster? I have no idea what those numbers represent. A don't is a don't though you can say it louder of softer depending on how awake you're.

Anonymous · Answer

MSKDear Avangi:

Thank you for your reply. As you may know, every Chinese character has four tones (ptich), and different tones of each character have different meanings. This present difficulties for English speaking students in learning Chinese. I think maybe I can make students understand the tone differences by giving them English equivalence. But according to your reply, the pitch of English words changes circumstantially. My idea may not be workable.

Regards

Avangi · Answer

Hi Anon,

I'm fascinated by the subject, though uneducated in it's linguistic applications.

Pitch recognition, like color recognition, is a mysterious phenomenon. Most "western" musicians consider it rare, possibly genetic, or inborn. Some are envious of those who have that strange ability, but some who have it consider it a curse. I've only known a handful of them personally.

A couple of years ago I read of a study involving some Asian population, in which adult native speakers were recorded, speaking a number of typical phrases in their native tongue. A month later the same subjects repeated the process, and it was discovered that without exception the pitches of the intonations were identical to the originals. It was concluded that this "sense" of pitch recognition, or repeatability, is learned. However, further investigation showed that it must be learned as a child. That is, a westerner could not move to an Asian country as a teenager, become immersed in the language, and acquire this ability. This is something of a revelation.

My point is that I realize the significance of intonation to a westerner is extremely different from what it is to those who have grown up in Asian countries - at least in some of them.

I believe that CJ and Kooyeen are well versed in all aspects of the sound of English, including intonation, and would be qualified to comment on the usefulness of a four- or five-level system of pitch analysis. You correctly understood my remarks about a given sentence being spoken with varying intonations as the circumstances change. I gather this is different in your native language.

As an aside, I wonder if you can tell me how teenage males deal with the problem of the changing voice. Are the four tones strictly relative and unique to the individual, or do all people of a common voice range share the same four tones?

Best wishes, - A.

Avangi · Answer

New2grammar I have no idea what those numbers represent. . . . . . you can say it louder of softer

Just as you could assign numbers from one to five to represent the loudness, or accent of the syllables in a sentence, you could represent the pitch level (Hertz) at which you speak/sing the vowel tones by a scale of one to five. Sometimes the pitch rises or falls on the vowel sound of a given syllable. That's why the OP represented the "dont" in each example by two numbers. (I believe there's a forum devoted to this sort of thing.)

You ask a girl if she'll go with you to a dance. She replies, "Don't you wish!" The pitch level would probably stay constant across "don't you" and then fall sharply on the short "i" vowel of "wish." There's probably a dwell at the higher level followed by a dwell at the low level, rather than a trombone style glissando, sliding down across the range, hence well represented by two numbers.

- A.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Avangi

My name is ****. Thank you very much for taking so much time to answer my question. The four tones of the Chinese characters are not really like the intonation of an English sentence or expression. The pitch in fact is a part of the character. A same character with different tone carries different meaning. For example, the character representing Horse is pronounced as ma with the tone being 214. But ma with tone of 55 would mean mother, or 51 scolding, or 35 numbness.

And yes, all native speakers share the same four tones, naturally, when they start to acquire the language as a baby. But this feature of the Chinese language is very difficult for the English speaking learners of Chinese to grasp. I am just trying to refer the students to something similar in English for the them to understand.

Avangi · Answer

Hi ****,

I'm puzzles about the 4-tone vs the 5-tone system. In describing the 4-tone system you've used 1,2, 3, 4, and 5.

Also, I was hoping you'd respond to my question about the approximately 1-octave change in pitch range which all males experience during youth.

Has anyone used Hertz (cycles per second) in describing the four tones?

Best wishes, - A.

New2grammar · Answer

I think the answer is yes. I know it's true for pitch and according to wiki, tone and pitch have a positive relationship, so yes, IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(music)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_%28linguistics%29

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