To say in the passive

Question

can you please help me to explain to my student why you can't  say he was said something by the postman when you can say he was given something by the postman.  I mean the grammatical reason why the verb to say can't be used in the passive form apart from  it is said that or he is said to be... etcetc, thanks and also let's in reported speech becomes??

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

A direct object is required to construct the passive voice.
Here is the active form:

He (subject) said (active voice verb) something (direct object) to the policeman (indirect object with particle "to"). The policeman (subject) gave him (indirect object) a ticket (direct object).

Passive construction: Note that this is grammatical, but not very natural.

Something (was the direct object, now it is the subject) was said (passive voice verb) to the policeman (indirect object with particle "to") by him (the old subject becomes the object of the preposition "by").

A ticket (was the direct object, now it is the subject) was given (passive voice verb) to him (indirect object with particle "to") by the policeman (the old subject becomes the object of the preposition "by")..

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymous~~can~~ Can you please help me to explain to my student why you can't say he was said something by the postman when you can say he was given something by the postman.

The general topic you are dealing with here is "Dative Alternation". Your student will need to understand a great many things to lay the groundwork for answering your question.
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Part One. Grammatical Patterns Allowed by Verbs with Datives (Indirect Objects). It depends on the verb.

1. Some verbs allow a to-construction and a double-object construction, e.g., give, bring, throw, send.

He gave a book to me. / He gave me a book.
He sent a letter to them. / He sent them a letter.
She brought a gift to me. / She brought me a gift.

2. Some verbs allow only a to-construction -- not a double-object construction, e.g., explain, demonstrate, say, mention. Many of these are polysyllabic Latinate verbs, but not all.

He explained the problem to me. / ~~He explained me the problem~~.
She said a few words to me. / ~~She said me a few words~~.
They mentioned the book to me. / ~~They mentioned me the book~~.

3. Some verbs allow only a double-object construction, e.g., ask, wish, save.

~~He asked a question to me.~~ / He asked me a question.
~~They wished good luck to me.~~ / They wished me good luck.
~~We saved a place to them.~~ / We saved them a place.
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Part Two. Two Ways to Form a Passive for Verbs with Datives.

There are two kinds of passives if you view passivization from the viewpoint of the element from the original sentence which becomes the subject of the passive sentence. For verbs with two arguments (a direct object and an indirect object), either argument might be placed as the subject of the passive sentence.

They gave me a comb.
First passive: A comb was given to me (by them).
Second passive: I was given a comb (by them).
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Now to your specific question.

Your student is asking about the second passive. You can't form the second passive (where the indirect object of the active form becomes the subject of the passive sentence) when the active form does not allow a double-object construction.

He was given something by the postman. Second passive of give, which allows a double-object construction: The postman gave him something. Correct.

*He was said something by the postman. Second passive of say, which does not allow a double-object constuction: *The postman said him something. Not correct.

The same is true of all the verbs in Group 2 above, which do not allow the double-object:

*I was explained the rule.
*She was mentioned his name.
*The soldiers were demonstrated the procedure. -- All three are impossible.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

He gave them a gift

Anonymous · Answer

Dear team, while teaching passive voice I also came across one structure which sounded little weird ...' I was said to something ' which is the passive voice of 'he said something to me' ...is the passive voice correct?

To say in the passive

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