To me, to me he says it

Question

This is from AntigoneBut hasn't Kreon honored only one  Of our two brothers with a tomb and dis-  Honored the other? They say he has covered  Eteokles with earth, as justice and law  Require, so down below among the dead 30  He will be honored. But the body of poor  Polyneikes, who died so wretchedly—  They say a proclamation has been cried  To all the citizens that no one may  Hide it inside a grave, wail over it  Or weep for it, it must be left unmourned,  Unburied, a sweet-tasting treasure that birds  Will spy and feed on with their greedy joy.  And this is the very order that they say  The noble Kreon has proclaimed to you 40  And me—to me, to me he says it!—and then  To make it clear to those who don't yet know,  He's coming here, and he does not treat this  As some small matter: anyone who does  What he has now forbidden will be put  Before the people and by public stoning  Murdered.to me, to me he says it = In my opinion, he intentionally said it as a warning for me???

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

It's unclear what your question is.

You certainly know what the words "he says it to me" mean.

So are you asking for an interpretation of the dramatic meaning of these words within the play? The reason why Antigone repeats "me" so insistently? (And I can only assume this is Antigone speaking because you didn't indicate whose speech this was in your post.) You are free to develop your own interpretation, but I assume it is a sign of outrage at the boldness and severity of Kreon's order and, especially, at the fact that his command is directed personally at Antigone.

A very casual way of expressing the same sentiment is "To ME, of all people. Can you believe the nerve of that guy? Saying that to ME!"

CJ

Afewminuteslate · Answer

Actually, what I don't understand is why she says: "he says" instead of he said.

Afewminuteslate · Answer

I am wondering if she used the present instead of the past because it's a fact that he said it.

Afewminuteslate · Answer

I would have understood if she said "to me, to me I say" or "to me, to me he said". But otherwise I just can't grasp the sentence. He said it in the past, but she make it sound like he said it the present. I am not sure whether you can also use the simple present to indicate a thing that was done in the past and which is presented as a fact, other than to state a factual statement such as "a cat is an animal", which is atemporal.

CalifJim · Answer

afewminuteslateHe said it in the past, but she make it sound like he said it the present.

You are taking this much too literally. This is a drama with all sorts of poetic features. Besides, it is a translation from ancient Greek, and we have no idea whether the orginal words were in the present tense. The choice of the present may have been made by the translator.

In any case, the use of the present as a substitute for the past is frequently done to make the narrative more vivid, so there is nothing unusual in seeing this substitution in a drama.

More to the point, the present tense doesn't have to talk about situations that are occurring exactly at this moment; it may more generally talk about current situations that have just developed or are currently developing. At this point in the drama, as I understand it, Antigone has just been given the order, and Kreon is about to give the same order publicly. All of these events, both those that have very recently occurred as well as those that are going to happen soon, can be subsumed under the present tense. All of these events may be considered to be part of the present situation.

CJ

Afewminuteslate · Answer

Ah, thank you. Well, I was wondering the same, but I could not find a decent grammar ressource on the Internet that I was looking for.

Afewminuteslate · Answer

The Present can be used to refer to past events in certain limited ways.
In newspaper headlines and captions to photographs
Thousands flee persecution.
Demonstrators clash with armed police as violence increases.
In relating incidents in informal, casual speech: the historic present
and the quotative
He was only an average athlete, and then suddenly he wins two Olympic medals.
I had just left the bank when this guy comes up to me and asks for money.
The Present tense in headlines and the sudden switch from Past to Present in speech
have the effect of dramatising the event, bringing it before the reader's eyes as if it were
an instance of the instantaneous Present. However, the headline stands apart from the
text, while the ‘historic present' switch occurs within the discourse at a key point in
the narrative, and is frequently paralleled by a switch to a proximal demonstrative (this),
as in the example: this guy comes up

Afewminuteslate · Answer

In linguistics and rhetoric, the historical present (sometimes dramatic present) refers to the employment of the present tense when narrating past events. Besides its use in writing about history, especially in historical chronicles (listing a series of events), it is used in fiction, for 'hot news' (as in headlines), and in everyday conversation (Huddleston & Pullum 2002: 129-131). In conversation, it is particularly common with 'verbs of communication' such as tell, write, and say (and in colloquial uses, go) (Leech 2002: 7).
Literary critics and grammarians have said that the historical present has the effect of making past events more vivid. More recently, analysts of its use in conversation have argued that it functions, not by making an event present, but by marking segments of a narrative, foregrounding events (that is, signalling that one event is particularly important, relevant to others) and marking a shift to evaluation (Brinton 1992: 221).
In the historical present, the defective verbs "can" and "may" cannot be used. For example, the sentence "Steve is taken mistakenly as prisoner, but can escape" would be expressed as "Steve is taken mistakenly as prisoner, but is able to escape".

She's not narrating past events though.

Afewminuteslate · Answer

nevermind

CalifJim · Answer

Earlier you wrote: what I don't understand is why she says: "he says" instead of he said.

Later you wrote: She's not narrating past events

I take it you've changed your mind about something.

CJ

To me, to me he says it

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