To help the children of / in Haiti

Question

Hi teachers,An excerpt: Volunteers are running on the clock to help the children of Haiti.Sometimes it's hard to understand if in this case, of or in should be used.  Thank you.

Mr Wordy · Accepted Answer

Both are possible in this sentence, but "of" works better in my view. "in" has more of a sense that the children are geographically located in Haiti; "of" has more of a sense that they "belong" to Haiti (i.e. they are Haitian, or at least have a Haitian affiliation).

(By the way, I don't really understand what "running on the clock" means here.)

Tinanam0102 · Answer

Hi Mr. Wordy,

I saw this from 60 minutes. It has captions so I copied the sentence down.

I don't know if I can interpret it correctly, but the Chinese caption says They are working very hard to help the children.

When you say "Both are possible in this sentence" -

On TV We see and we know the journalists are in Haiti doing this piece of news about the lost and displaced children of Haiti, so when "of" is used in that sentence, it'd immediately tell us these children are in fact in Haiti, so using "in" would be redundant. Can I explan it this way?

Thank you.

Tinanam

Mr Wordy · Answer

tinanam0102On TV We see and we know the journalists are in Haiti doing this piece of news about the lost and displaced children of Haiti, so when "of" is used in that sentence, it'd immediately tell us these children are in fact in Haiti, so using "in" would be redundant. Can I explan it this way?

In this context, we'd assume that "the children of Haiti" means that they are located in Haiti. So, in this context (but not always) "of" kind of encompasses "in", but has the additional sense that they "belong" to Haiti.

Mr Wordy · Answer

tinanam0102On TV We see and we know the journalists are in Haiti doing this piece of news about the lost and displaced children of Haiti, so when "of" is used in that sentence, it'd immediately tell us these children are in fact in Haiti, so using "in" would be redundant. Can I explan it this way?

In this context, we'd assume that "the children of Haiti" means that they are located in Haiti. So, in this context (but not always) "of" kind of encompasses "in", but has the additional sense that they "belong" to Haiti.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi Mr. Wordy,

Thank you for help again.

I just ran into a question this afternoon. Would you take a look at below?

We have our business registered in Bristish Virgin Island. I thought with "Island", the preposition is "on".

Thank you.

Tinanam

Mr Wordy · Answer

AnonymousWe have our business registered in Bristish Virgin Island. I thought with "Island", the preposition is "on".

First, there is no such place as "British Virgin Island". The name is "(the) British Virgin Islands"; it's an archipelago, or island group. Although "on" is possible with island groups, "in" is equally possible.

Second, even for individual islands, "in" may still be used. This is especially true when, as is the case here, one is referring to the island as a country or political or administrative territory (as opposed to a geographical entity). For example, "Our business is registered in Bermuda" is more natural than "... on Bermuda".

CalifJim · Answer

tinanam0102We see and we know the journalists are in Haiti doing this piece of news about the lost and displaced children of Haiti, so when "of" is used in that sentence, it'd immediately tell us these children are in fact in Haiti, so using "in" would be redundant. Can I explan it this way?

I think the following highlights the real difference.

the children in Haiti: the children located in Haiti whether they are Haitian children, Russian children, American children, or Chinese children.
the children of Haiti: the children who are Haitian whether they are located in Haiti, in America, in China, or in Australia.
the children of Haiti in Haiti: the children who are Haitian and located in Haiti.

It doesn't seem to me that "in Haiti" would be redundant from the point of view of language, but given that the film footage shows scenes in Haiti, it is redundant from the point of view of the entire presentation.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hi CalifJim,

Thanks you for your help.

What would you think of the following?

- John of Vancouver, Canada. (Would this mean John is of Vancouver native in Canada/ native to Vancouver in Canada?)

- John from Vancouver, Canada. (Would this mean John is from Vancouver, but may or may not a native of Vancouver in Canada.)

Thanks again,

Tinanam

Anonymous · Answer

Hi Mr. Wordy,

I'm sorry for the mistakes.

Mr Wordy
Second, even for individual islands, "in" may still be used. This is especially true when, as is the case here, one is referring to the island as a country or political or administrative territory (as opposed to a geographical entity). For example, "Our business is registered in Bermuda" is more natural than "... on Bermuda".

1. I'm sorry if I am not understanding it well. Take a example, with Mainland China, do we say on Mainland, or in Mainland? I've seen both used, but I don't when to use it and when shouldn't.

Sentence: The authorities in/on Mainland have warned of the approaching typhoon in Fuijzhen.

2. Not to complicate the sentence, "The authorities of Mainland China" also troubles me.

Thank you.

Tinanam

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymous- John of Vancouver, Canada. (Would this mean John is of Vancouver native in Canada/ native to Vancouver in Canada?)

- John from Vancouver, Canada. (Would this mean John is from Vancouver, but may or may not a native of Vancouver in Canada.)

It is unusual to put those kinds of prepositional phrases after a person's name. I would guess that they mean about the same thing. I don't think that a writer would intend to make some fine distinction between the two, even in the rare case where a writer used these expressions.

The first construction is reminiscent of very old and formal ways of speaking or writing. John of Vancouver, Canada could refer to the particular man named John who was born in that city or who lives there.

The second construction is particularly unlikely. With from you would normally have a verb: This is John. He is from Vancouver, Canada. This could mean that he was born there; it could mean that he lives there; it could mean that he has just arrived from there.

There is no exact dividing line between the meanings of of and from -- only the general differences you find listed in any dictionary.

CJ

To help the children of / in Haiti

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