to dinner

Question

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.My book (written by a Japanese) says 'to dinner' above modifies 'our table'. Is it really so? If so, why the  preposiotion 'to'? 'Our table to dinner'? It sounds strange even to my Japanese ears...

BarbaraPA · Accepted Answer

Hi Taka,

It does sound strange to me too. I would say "at dinner" (or possibly "during dinner").

Aperisic · Answer

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our dinner table, there was very great difficulty in serving it.
If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table for dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.
If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to have dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.
If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table specially designed for dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.

to very rarely expresses the purpose of a table but sometimes it does

This table is brilliant, we have to buy it. Look, it says that it is an oversized retractable table to dinner and work.

So, a table to dinner is a table whose chief purpose is to have dinner on it - that is how it is designed. Though all four answers are possible, it is the fourth that is really true to the point that to dinner still can modify table.

(I do not know why they used it as an example, it is possible but rare. It can't be a proper example for anything important I can think of in English except something like:

A very romantic place to dinner
Our room to party
...

But this is possible only because place to have dinner/party can be made shorter = place to dinner/party.

In similar expressions usually after to is a verb or some form of a verb not a noun. At least in most of the cases that is so.

You do not say "table to chess" (chess table), "knife to cheese" (knife for cheese, cheese knife)...

Unless they wanted to say that some rare form with to expresses that a place or item was designed for one specific purpose and do not list that it can be: party, dinner, banquet and a few more events, then I do not see any usefulness of the given explanation in the book, actually it can confuse you, as much as it confuses us here.)

J Lewis · Answer

It's not a very usual sentence but doesn't really sound wrong to me. "To dinner" means "as guests invited to dinner". It's quite common to say "I'm having some friends to dinner this evening". An alternative could be "for", but it might be misunderstood!

CalifJim · Answer

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.
My book (written by a Japanese) says 'to dinner' above modifies 'our table'. Is it really so?
No. It modifies acquaintances (who were invited) to dinner. Odd expression. Seems old-fashioned to me.

CJ

Taka · Answer

CalifJim

No. It modifies acquaintances (who were invited) to dinner. Odd expression. Seems old-fashioned to me.

I didn't come up with that idea, CJ!

So 'to squeeze X round the table to dinner' here doesn't mean 'to place X around the dinner table' but 'to ask X around the table who was/were invited to dinner to close it up'?

CalifJim · Answer

That works for me, yes!

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

This is off the main point of the thread.

'To squeeze people around my table' does not necessarily mean I asked them to make space by squeezing together. It just means I found extra space. Perhaps I did this by asking people to squeeze together, perhaps I did it by placing the chairs close together before they arrived, who knows?

eg If I go to a restaurant with my wife and the manager says 'Sorry, we are full', I might give him $20 and say 'Can you squeeze us in, somehow?'

Best wishes, Clive

Milky · Answer

I agree.

Aperisic · Answer

I have to admit that I can’t catch the meaning of If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.

Maybe:

Even if we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was a very great difficulty in serving it.

I do not want to sound stupid but why we have the past in both sentences together with we and with an event that happened, whose each detail is currently known.

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was a very great difficulty in serving it.

If I was there, I saw that, it is not the case of strict potential/conditional but then what does it mean? I saw it or I did not see it. What if introduces, condition of what? Let me try alone first:

If he was there, he saw it. is OK because we speak of him, and we do not know if he was or was not there, but if he was he definitely must have seen it.

Maybe this example is better: Yesterday, if I had a high blood pressure, it was again the reason of my headache.

OK, this one I can catch, But this one

If we managed to squeeze a few acquaintances round our table to dinner, there was very great difficulty in serving it.

I can’t swallow

. Any more thorough explanation? (I completely agree that I woke up more stupid this morning but anyhow help me here)

Nona the brit · Answer

The use of 'if we' creates a meaning of 'on the rare occasion that we managed to (and we usually couldn't)'.

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