To depend on/from

Question

Hi,I was wondering if the phase 'depend from' can somtimes be correct. Iwasthinking maybe to describe a capitalistic subordination, something like'The local cookie factory now depends from the Swiss conglomerate Nestl=E9.'or to describe the chain of commands in a company :'The accounting team directly depend from the chairman'.Or would you say that 'to depend on' in better in those cases.Thanks.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I was wondering if the phase 'depend from' can somtimes be correct. . . . 'The local cookie factory now depends from the Swiss conglomerate Nestlé.'. . . Or would you say that 'to depend on' in better in those cases.[/nq]
In a word, no.
The modern verb depend demonstrates its root
in the latin verb pendere = hang. Its commonest
contemporary meaning is thus basically metaphorical and not literal. "Babies depend on adults" does not denote babes in arms as distinct from babies in
bassinets etc. The pattern of usage tells us depend on is normal (metaphorical but common) and depend from is exceptional (correctly used only when literal, thus also archaic.)
The factory example is another type of metaphor, because the relationship there described is ownership viz. a different sort of relationship than that between child and adult.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was wondering if the phase 'depend from' can sometimes be correct.[/nq]
Hardly. It isn't English idiom except in (rare) literal senses.

Adrian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hardly. It isn't English idiom except in (rare) literal senses.[/nq]
So, in those two sentences, you'd say "depend on" is absolutely correct?

Besides, could you give me a simple example where "depend from" can be used in a literal sense please? Do you mean "to depend a shirt from the coat-hanger"?
Thanks.
(and sorry for the two spelling mistakes in my first post)

Pierre

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Hardly. It isn't English idiom except in (rare) literal senses.[/nq]
[nq:1]So, in those two sentences, you'd say "depend on" is absolutely correct?[/nq]
In both cases, it would be correct if that's what you mean, but I suspect that it isn't. I think you mean that the accounting team "report to", or "are responsible to" the Chairman, and that the cookie factory is a subsidiary of Nestle. "Depend on" means that one entity needs another entity. What you wrote means that the accounting team need the Chairman, and that the factory needs Nestle but doesn't tell you anything about their positions in the organisation.
[nq:1]Besides, could you give me a simple example where "depend from" can be used in a literal sense please? Do you mean "to depend a shirt from the coat-hanger"?[/nq]
No. It's never used in ordinary speech. You are likely to find that only people who hang around in newsgroups like this will recognise the old form. You certainly shouldn't use it in normal English - its only probable use nowadays would be in very formal and old fashioned writing.
Here's one I found online in a patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4927347.html
A pair of hydraulic cylinders 110 depend from diametrically opposed edges of plate 106 and have actuator rods 112 coupled to top plate
88.

Nearly all the examples of "depend from" found online are either mistakes, or part of another construct, such as "this depends from where the part was ordered".

David

=
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Besides, could you give me a simple example where "depend from" can be used in a literal sense please? Do you mean "to depend a shirt from the coat-hanger"?[/nq]
Yes . . .
When used literally, verb depend = verb hang (in its intransitive form only). This usage is nowadays archaic.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

Hi,
I was wondering if the phase 'depend from' can somtimes be correct. Iwas
thinking maybe to describe a capitalistic subordination, something like

'The local cookie factory now depends from the Swiss conglomerate Nestlé.'
or to describe the chain of commands in a company :

'The accounting team directly depend from the chairman'.

Or would you say that 'to depend on' in better in those cases.

Thanks.
It looks to me like someone has translated too literally (and incorrectly) from French into English. The French "dependre de" is best translated as "to depend on" or "to be dependent on". Maybe the trouble stems from the more common meaning of "de" as "from". The sentence "The local cookie factory is now dependent on the Swiss conglomerate Nestle" looks correct to me, and gives the subordination that is required.
I stand to be corrected on this, of course.
Steve Howarth

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hi, I was wondering if the phase 'depend from' can somtimes be correct. Iwas thinking maybe to describe a capitalistic ... to me, and gives the subordination that is required. I stand to be corrected on this, of course. Steve Howarth[/nq]
Mary bought her grandchild's diapers from Walmart and her husband's depends from Walgreen's.
)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It looks to me like someone has translated too literally (and incorrectly) from French into English. The French "dependre de" ... looks correct to me, and gives the subordination that is required. I stand to be corrected on this, of course.[/nq]
That's possible. If it's the case, it's worth repeating that the preposition to be used with any specific verb in another European language can never be translated or guessed. You have to learn them, as I learned that "dependre" takes "de".

David
==
replace usenet with the

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It looks to me like someone has translated too literally (and incorrectly) from French into English. The French "dependre de" is best translated as "to depend on" or "to be dependent on".[/nq]
I knew that, but I thought there was a noticeable difference in meaning between, for instance, 'The number of ice creams sold depends on the weather' and the two sentences I used in my first post. In fact, the verb 'dépendre' in French can be used with the rough meaning of 'being a dependency of' (like 'Guadeloupe is a dependency of France'). So in French you could for instance say 'La police dépend directement du maire.', which I thought could be literally translated as 'The police depend directly on/from the mayor.' It seems that it's not true. I like the translation proposed in a previous post : 'The police reports directly to the mayor.' I'll use that in the future.
[nq:1]Maybe the trouble stems from the more common meaning of "de" as "from". The sentence "The local cookie factory is now dependent on the Swiss conglomerate Nestle" looks correct to me, and gives the subordination that is required.[/nq]
It's been a long time since I thought every 'de' could be translated by 'from'.

)
Thanks again.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1] I like the translation proposed in a previous post : 'The police reports directly to the mayor.' I'll use that in the future.[/nq]
The noun "police" (as opposed to "policeman" &c.) is construed as plural, so you should say either "The police report ..." or e.g. "The police department reports .."

Odysseus

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