This beckons the question

Question

We all know about the misuse of "begs the question" when raises is clearly meant. But how about "beckons the question"?
http://www.fatwallet.com/t/67/453910/:
"I guess this beckons the question: will anyone ever be able to compete with eBay?"

http://www.johnstexas.com http://stores.ebay.com/Johnstexas?refid=store http://www.desototexasusa.com/glossary.htm

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]We all know about the misuse of "begs the question" when raises is clearly meant. But how about "beckons the question"? http://www.fatwallet.com/t/67/453910/: "I guess this beckons the question: will anyone ever be able to compete with eBay?"[/nq]
This is what most people have meant all along.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]We all know about the misuse of "begs the question" ... question: will anyone ever be able to compete with eBay?"[/nq]
[nq:1]This is what most people have meant all along.[/nq]
"Begs the question" does NOT clearly mean "raises the question". That's a corruption of the original meaning, which was to "assume the truth of a thing to be proved or a thing equivalent to it" ( New Shorter Oxford )
Apparently, people heard "beg the question", thought they knew what it meant, and used it that way; and it became common enough usage to be considered acceptable.
Another misuse that has made its way into dictionaries is "to evade a difficulty". Interesting to see, The New Shorter Oxford has that definition, but it doesn't even mention the "raises the question" definition.
When you say "begs the question", you can't depend upon its being understood correctly. There will be some who will know the proper meaning and others who will know only one of the corrupted meanings.
I'd never heard "beckons the question", but I think it's a highly commendable phrase, since it says unexceptionably what some people have mistakenly come to think "begs the question" means. It sounds like it could have been someone's invention to avoid the ambiguity of "begs the question".

Bob Cunningham, Southern California, USofA
Down with Miss Thistlebottom:
Let's hear it for "like" as a conjunction!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]This is what most people have meant all along.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Begs the question" does NOT clearly mean "raises the question". That's a corruption of the original meaning, which was to ... the question" means. It sounds like it could have been someone's invention to avoid the ambiguity of "begs the question".[/nq]
Does OED have a usage of "beg" as in "to beg the question" but in a different phrase?
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]We all know about the misuse of "begs the question" when raises is clearly meant. But how about "beckons the question"? http://www.fatwallet.com/t/67/453910/: "I guess this beckons the question: will anyone ever be able to compete with eBay?"[/nq]
Well spotted! It's now in the Eggcorn Database...

http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/379/beckon/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]This is what most people have meant all along.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Begs the question" does NOT clearly mean "raises the question".[/nq]
Yes, Mr C, you're right. But not everybody knows that. Most people misuse this phrase to mean "raises the question". That is what I meant.
[nq:1]That's a corruption of the original meaning, which was to "assume the truth of a thing to be proved or ... will be some who will know the proper meaning and others who will know only one of the corrupted meanings.[/nq]
And these will also be the people who say "try and untie the Gordian knot", "between you and I", and a host of other barbarisms as well, idiomatic though they might be by currently corrupted standards at the level of the lowest common denominator in masscomi society.
[nq:1]I'd never heard "beckons the question", but I think it's a highly commendable phrase, since it says unexceptionably what some ... the question" means. It sounds like it could have been someone's invention to avoid the ambiguity of "begs the question".[/nq]
I am in 1000% (a baseball percentage, understand) agreement here.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

Usenet · Answer

(
[nq:1]Does OED have a usage of "beg" as in "to beg the question" but in a different phrase?[/nq]
(quote)

1. To ask alms or by way of alms. a. trans. To ask (bread, money,etc.) in alms or as a charitable gift; to procure (one's living) by begging.
a1225 Ancr. R. 356 Scheome ich telle uorte+beggen ase on harlot...his liuene? 1377 Langl. P. Pl. B. vi. 195 Blynde and bedreden ...tha t seten to begge silver. c1440 Promp. Parv. 28/2 Beggyn bodely fode. c1500 Bk. Mayd Emlyn xxvii. in Poet. Tracts (Percy Soc.) 28 Longe or she were dede, She wente to begge her brede. 1611 Bible Ps. xxxvii. 25 Yet haue I not seene the righteous forsaken, nor his seede begging bread. 1805 Scott Last Minstr. 24 He begged his bread from door to door.

b. intr. To ask alms; esp. to ask alms habitually, to live by asking alms. Const. absol.; of, from, formerly at, a person; for alms.
(c897 K. Aelfred Gregory's Past. 284 Hit is swithe wel be thaem ?ecweden thaet he eft bedeci?e on sumera, & him mon thonne noht ne selle.) a1300 Cursor M. 4708 thai war sa fele that begand (v.r. beggand) yode. 1382 Wyclif John ix. 8 He that sat and beggide. 1386 Chaucer Sompn. T. 4 Ther wente a lymytour aboute To preche and eek to begge. a1450 York Myst., Barbers 8 What riche man gose from dore to dore To begge at hym thaet has right noght.
1530 Palsgr. 446/1 I begge for the guylde of saynt Anthonye. 1562 J. Heywood Prov. & Epigr.(1867) 138 Thou begst at wrong doore, and so hast begd longe. 1601 Shakes. Per. i. iv. 41 Those palates...Would now be glad of bread, and beg for it. 1602 Warner Alb. Eng. ix. xlvii. (1612) 218 Fring'd and ymbroidred Petticoats now begge (i.e. are worn by beggars). a1617 Hieron Wks. II. 392 We haue an ordinary saying...'They which begge must not choose'. 1718 Lady M. W. Montague Lett. II. liv. 80 While the post-horses are changed, the whole town comes out to beg. 1856 Froude Hist. Eng. I. i. 74 Licences to beg were at that time granted. (/quote)

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
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'"History," Hegel said, "is a slaughterhouse."
And war is how the slaughter is carried out.'
Sydney H. Schanberg, The Village Voice ,
May 17th, 2005

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]([/nq]
[nq:2]Does OED have a usage of "beg" as in "to beg the question" but in a different phrase?[/nq]
[nq:1](quote) 1. To ask alms or by way of alms. a. trans. To ask (bread, money, etc.) in alms or as a charitable gift; to procure (one's living) by begging. (more detail for that particular usage snipped)[/nq]
Er that's the familiar usage of the word, of course. I was asking for the "beg the question" usage, because I can't find any examples of it other than in that particular phrase.
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]( (quote) 1. To ask alms or by way of ... living) by begging. (more detail for that particular usage snipped)[/nq]
[nq:1]Er that's the familiar usage of the word, of course. I was asking for the "beg the question" usage, because I can't find any examples of it other than in that particular phrase.[/nq]
MWCD has "to require as necessary or appropriate", which seems close.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=beg

Online examples all appear to be modeled on "begs the question", e.g.:

But that begs the issue...
However, that begs the thought...
But that begs the point that...
That begs the presumption that...
It's the kind of line that begs the response...

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Er that's the familiar usage of the word, of ... any examples of it other than in that particular phrase.[/nq]
[nq:1]MWCD has "to require as necessary or appropriate", which seems close. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=beg[/nq]
Interesting does any dictionary have examples of this usage?
[nq:1]Online examples all appear to be modeled on "begs the question", e.g.: But that begs the issue... However, that begs the thought... But that begs the point that... That begs the presumption that... It's the kind of line that begs the response...[/nq]
Those all seem to use "begs" as "prompts", though, which reinforces my view that "begs the question" is an idiosyncratic usage which doesn't deserve to be defended in any way.
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Does OED have a usage of "beg" as in "to beg the question" but in a different phrase?[/nq]
They give examples with that meaning of "beg" used with other objects: "begging the meaning", "beg the thing in question", and "begging the point"
The relevant definition is number 6:
beg, v. Second Edition 1989

6. To take for granted without warrant; esp. into beg the question: to take for granted the
matter in dispute, to assume without proof.
1581 W. CLARKE in Confer. IV. (1584) Ffiij, I saythis is still to begge the question.
1687 SETTLE Refl. Dryden 13 Here hee's at his oldway of Begging the meaning.
1680 BURNET Rochester (1692) 82 This was toassert or beg the thing in Question.
1788 REID Aristotle's Log. v. §3. 118 Begging thequestion is when the thing to be proved is
assumed in the premises.
1852 ROGERS Ecl. Faith 251 Many say it is beggingthe point in dispute.
1870 BOWEN Logic ix. 294 The vulgar equivalentfor petitio principii is begging the question.

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