There has been/There have been many an argument

Question

There has been many an argument about this topic.There have been many an argument about this topic.Would you use the plural for this? (I would, but are my instincts right?)Thanks.Barb

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

I'm afraid I would say 'There's'.

I just looked it up in Quirk et al (everyone please open your Quirks to sect 10.35 n, p 758), where they say: "Grammatical concord is usually obeyed for more than and many a, although it may conflict with notional concord: Many a member has protested the proposal. Although the subject is notionally plural, the singular is preferred because member is analyzed as the head of the noun phrase."

CalifJim · Answer

Grammar GeekWould you use the plural for this?

No. As far as I know, "many a" ("many an") is always treated as a singular.

CJ

Frostwhite · Answer

Hi GG!

I'm sorry, but I have a question out of the topic.
When do we use "many a/an"?

I'm really curious about this.

Thanks!

Kooyeen · Answer

frostwhiteI'm sorry, but I have a question out of the topic.
When do we use "many a/an"?

It's the same as "many" and "a lot of": many a thing = many things.
Longman considers "many a something" to be formal or old-fashioned. The fact that GG isn't sure how to use it just implies it must not be commonly used by native speakers.

Longman uses the singular in this example:
Many a parent has had to go through this same painful process.

I'm not a native speaker, so I can't really say which sounds better to me, the singular or the plural. In many cases, it's not easy to figure out whether there should be notional agreement or grammatical agreement. However, I can't believe "notional agreement" can be "wrong": it is based on a mental process that seems natural and logical, and I guess it probably happens in every language. What I'm saying is that while "There is a group of people over there" is normal and expected, I'm not sure a sentence like "There are a group of people who are calling your name" should be considered unexpected. It would be "notional agreement": There are a group of people = There are some people, and they form a group /// There is a group of people = There is a group, and it's made up of people.
So, in other words, even though "There has been many an argument on this topic" is probably expected and more correct (statistically), I find it hard to believe "There have been many an argument on this topic" can't be accepted as "linguistically correct" (since it's based on notional agreement).

This is just my opinion, and I'd like to hear other opinions, especially from native speakers. I'm sorry if this is kind of off-topic (if it is and anyone feels like discussing this further, we can split the thread and move it in the linguistic section). I'm just trying to understand more about how languages work.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Thank you for the replies.

It felt like "have" with the "There have been" but when I reversed it to "Many an argument has..." only "has" worked.

Always good to know I can count on you all!

Dimsumexpress · Answer

CalifJim
Grammar GeekWould you use the plural for this?
No. As far as I know, "many a" ("many an") is always treated as a singular.CJ

This topic somehow brings me to this song:

" Many a tear has to fall "
" But its all in the game "
" All in the wonderful game "
"That we know as Love ......."

CalifJim · Answer

KooyeenHowever, I can't believe "notional agreement" can be "wrong"

Believe it!!!

*Everybody have had breakfast by now.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

CalifJim
KooyeenHowever, I can't believe "notional agreement" can be "wrong"
Believe it!!!*Everybody have had breakfast by now.CJ

I know, that's the problem! Generally speaking, it seems impossible to figure out whether notional or grammatical agreement should be used.
You might say that if a particle is too close to the subject, then grammatical agreement is expected. But this exception shows it's not really true:
Everybody has had breakfast.
Neither John nor Mary have had breakfast.
However, the "rule" would work if we considered the structures "A or/nor B" to be like "A and B", plural.

And by the way, what happens to "everybody" in this case, assuming each person has one hat?
Everybody grabbed their hat(s) and went outside.
Here it says that most people would use the plural when speaking. That would be notional agreement. ( http://books.google.com/books?id=7lFSQ0xK_i4C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&ots=8P1L4Mu2B8&dq="everybody+grabbed+their )

If everyone pulls out their gun(s), we'd better start saying our prayers.
The plural sounds better to me in these cases, I don't know why. If it's ok, and if it does sound better, then it's notional agreement that makes this possible.

Gray fold 781 · Answer

Subject Change, again: It seems the statement, "Make America Great Again" under Mr. Trumpf, has a mis-spelled word, namely, "Great". The correct spelling should be "GRATE."

(1). President Donald John Trump(f) (2017/ 2018)may be a greater piece of history than some of his predecessors. Consider, since he has been President, the New York Stock Exchange has topped 25,000 points, which many of us remember Mr. Trump(f) taking credit for.

Question; Will Mr. Trump(f) take credit for the past five days when "the market" dropped over 10% with the two greatest point drops of over 1000 points in the markets history? Ask him!!!!!! LOL Is he's a COWARD???

(2)President George Walker Bush; (2000/2008)The second greatest crash of the stock market history. He took the world's economies to unique lows, which took years to be brought back by President Barack Obama.

(3) President Richard Milhous Nixon, (1969/1974) [Note; He was elected twice, but only served five (5) years.] "RESIGNED" due to his involvement in "The Watergate Break-in". Mr. Nixon also PARDONED his "convicted" Vice Pres. Spiro Theodore Agnew, former Gov. Maryland, of Agnew's conviction for illegal financial dealings who was allowed to "resign" by Nixon. A number of Mr. Nixon's executive & personal staff went to prison, including his Attorney General, & John Deen, and several others for that break-in.. Gerald Rudolph Ford was the first President to never have been elected. He was the "Speaker of the House, when Mr. Nixon appointed him "Vice President" who succeeded Spiro Theodore Agnew after his resignation. Gerald Rudolph Ford's first item when he became President, was to give Richard Milhous Nixon "a full pardon". Nixon went FREE but 6 of his "sargents"went to jail for three years for him.

(4)Herbert Clark Hoover (1929/1933) During Mr. Hoover presidency the world's greatest financial crash occurred. Giving Adolf Hitler, Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini, & Hideki Eiki Tojo the platform they needed to create the dictatorships that created World War Two, (1939/1945). Love, Ray

There has been/There have been many an argument

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