'the' with superlatives (advanced)

Question

Hi there,I've come across the following sentences in a textbook on business English:I. 'Which do you like best...?''Example: I like email THE BEST because ...'I could accept 'best' instead of 'most' in colloquial speech, but 'the best' seems to be over the top, both in terms of grammar and register. a) Does anybody approve of the author's choice in the sentences above?b) If replaced with more grammatical 'most', what is 'most' in this type of sentences - a quantifier?II. Is it grammatical to use 'the + superlative adj.' in subject complements? What would be the difference compared to the original sentence? 'Since taking the job, I'm most bored I've ever been.' -&gt; c) Since taking the job, I'm THE most bored I've ever been.'Conference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!' -&gt; d) Conference-call participants are THE happiest with Multicell!III. I was wondering whether 'the' in the sentences below is optional: 'We don't want to be the second most successful!' -&gt; e) We don't want to be second most successful!'It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's the furthest of any on the market.' -&gt; f) It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's furthest of any on the market.Thanks for your comments.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Paul Evdokimova) Does anybody approve of the author's choice in the sentences above?

Yes. I do. (This does not imply that I disapprove of the same expression without 'the'.)

Paul Evdokimovb) If replaced with more grammatical 'most', what is 'most' in this type of sentences - a quantifier?

It's an adverb (of degree) whether it's 'best' or 'most'.

Paul EvdokimovIs it grammatical to use 'the + superlative adj.' in subject complements?

Yes. Of all the contestants we have interviewed, they are the tallest.

Paul Evdokimov'Since taking the job, I'm most bored I've ever been.'

Not good. It needs 'the most bored'.

Paul EvdokimovSince taking the job, I'm THE most bored I've ever been.

Fine.

Paul EvdokimovConference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!

OK.

Paul EvdokimovConference-call participants are THE happiest with Multicell!

Borderline. Some people may find it all right. Personally, I would not use it.

Paul Evdokimovwhether 'the' in the sentences below is optional

'We don't want to be the second most successful!' Yes, to my ear.
'It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's the furthest of any on the market.' No, to my ear.

CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJim If replaced with more grammatical 'most', what is 'most' in this type of sentences - a quantifier?It's an adverb (of degree) whether it's 'best' or 'most'.

CJ, why then Cambridge dictionary considers 'most' to be a quantifier in sentences like ' This one http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ru/%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C/%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/cost_1 the most.' and 'Which of you http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ru/%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C/%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/earn most?' ? Are they any different from 'Which do you like best...?' or 'I like email THE BEST because ...' ?
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ru/%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C/%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/most_2

Back to the main topic. I still do not follow the guidelines you and the authors apply for keeping or leaving out 'the'. Let's look closer at the examples:
c) 'Since taking the job, I'm most bored I've ever been.' (authors' choice)
Not good. It needs 'the most bored'. (CJ's choice)
d) 'Conference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!' (authors' choice)
(CJ concurs)
f) 'It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's the furthest of any on the market.' (authors' choice)
No, to my ear. (CJ)

(Q1) It looks as if you treat participle adjectives differently from the 'regular' ones, right? I mean you insist on 'the most bored' but 'happiest' and 'furthest'. Why?
(Q2) I know it's hard to guess the authors' reasoning, but why do they treat d and f differently?
Thanks for your further comments.

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovThis one costs the most.' and 'Which of you earns most?

the most moneyis implied, so 'most' is a determiner. I believe that's the reasoning behind the dictionary entry.

Paul EvdokimovWhich do you like best...?

the 'best' or 'most' or 'greatest' degree of liking

Paul EvdokimovI'm most bored

'person' is implicit. I'm most bored person is impossible. 'person' has to have an article, so it's I'm the most bored (person).

Paul Evdokimovthat's the furthest of any on the market

Same reasoning as with 'bored'. the furthest (distance).
CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovI mean you insist on 'the most bored' but 'happiest' and 'furthest'. Why?

I argued for 'the most bored' and 'the furthest'.

Paul Evdokimovtreat participle adjectives differently from the 'regular' ones

I think you're attributing significance to something that is just a coincidence.
CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJim'm most bored'person' is implicit. I'm most bored person is impossible. 'person' has to have an article, so it's I'm the most bored (person).

'I'm bored/tired' is just a state desribed by a gradable adjective - why would a change in degree require any need for a noun?

CalifJimSame reasoning as with 'bored'. the furthest (distance).CJ

I argued for 'the most bored' and 'the furthest'.

'It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's the furthest of any on the market.' No, to my ear.

I'm totally confused... Are you for 'the furthest' or 'furthest' after all?

d) 'Conference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!'
Just trying to apply 'reverse reasoning': you opt for 'happiest' because ... 'people' or 'ones' are not implied?! Or any implied noun is redundant in this particular case for some reason?

CalifJimI think you're attributing significance to something that is just a coincidence.

I'm just hopelessly trying to reconcile all these contradictions and scouting for any rule governing this issue... Unfortunately all the grammar books I fall back on in cases like this ignore the issue.

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovI'm totally confused... Are you for 'the furthest' or 'furthest' after all?

Ah. But what was the question I was answering? Have you considered that?
Is "the" optional (in 'the furthest')? My answer was "No", meaning "the" is not optional, meaning you cannot omit it.

Paul Evdokimovd) 'Conference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!' Just trying to apply 'reverse reasoning': you opt for 'happiest' because ... 'people' or 'ones' are not implied?! Or any implied noun is redundant in this particular case for some reason?

They are not "the happiest people". That's not the meaning. The meaning is more like this: They experience the greatest degree of happiness/satisfaction with Multicell, and lesser degrees of happiness/satisfaction with the products of other companies.
_________
Note that many of these choices are matters of judgment by the individual speaker. I don't think you'll find complete agreement from everyone regarding "the" before a superlative.
CJ

Antecedtly smith · Answer

The is there, two words in front of the superlative adjective. For the most part in English the adjective comes in front of the noun, yet in this sentence it comes after the noun. The is not all that flexible,* so despite everything it goes before the noun. You could likewise write it like this:
The noun superlative is actually a very standard construction. Here are some typical examples:
The motion-picture camera is the tool closest to the human sense of observation.
The person most capable should be chosen for the job.
words anagrams..

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJim'Conference-call participants are happiest with Multicell!'

CalifJimThey are not "the happiest people". That's not the meaning. The meaning is more like this: They experience the greatest degree of happiness/satisfaction with Multicell, and lesser degrees of happiness/satisfaction with the products of other companies.

CJ, I can't see any difference between this context and the one in 'Since taking the job, I'm most bored I've ever been.' It's obvious that the latter is not about being the most bored person 24/7; it's just about 'the greatest degree of' boredom this person experiences while at work only. By the way, you wouldn't insist on 'person' implied in 'I'm least bored when I'm at home', would you?
Why then treat them differently in terms of grammar?

CalifJimNote that many of these choices are matters of judgment by the individual speaker.

I get it. I'm looking for some straightforward rule for my students to treat instances of this kind, but to little avail.

CalifJimAh. But what was the question I was answering? Have you considered that?Is "the" optional (in 'the furthest')? My answer was "No", meaning "the" is not optional, meaning you cannot omit it.

Yeah, I must have overlooked the corresponding question.

CalifJim · Answer

Paul EvdokimovI'm looking for some straightforward rule for my students to treat instances of this kind, but to little avail.

The "rule" is not a rule.
Note that many of these choices are matters of judgment by the individual speaker. I don't think you'll find complete agreement from everyone regarding "the" before a superlative.
CJ

Paul Evdokimov · Answer

CalifJimNote that many of these choices are matters of judgment by the individual speaker.

I object to subjective judgement, unless it's based on a concept or rule of any kind. There's been none whatsoever either from you or from those notorious authors. I'm trying to infer something from your ambiguous reasoning and contradictions and it goes like this:

1. Use 'the' before a superlative adjective or adverb.
1.1. After a linking verb, if a noun/pronoun does not follow a predicative adjective, 'the' is optional in informal contexts
- at the end of the sentence:
'I decided to go on foot - it was (the) cheapest.'
'Which was (the) most difficult?'
'Of all the contestants we have interviewed, they are (the) tallest.'
'We don't want to be (the) second most successful!'
- in the middle of the sentence:
'Since taking the job, I'm (the) most bored I've ever been.'
'Conference-call participants are (the) happiest with Multicell!'
'It picks up speech from 6 m away - that's (the) furthest of any on the market.'

Feel free to use or challenge my concept ('the rule'

)...

'the' with superlatives (advanced)

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